A lot of the style vs. style debates seem to hinge on the performance of professional and semi-professional athletes that are thought to be representative of a particular style. I was looking at the video on http://www.thekwoon.com/ in which some of the kwoon guys try some training with Rudi Ott. The video takes a comical approach, but the underlying idea is that the kwoon guys, who don’t appear to be slackers in the training department, are obliterated by just a taste of the training regiment of a professional fighter.
In this context, isn’t it fair to say that professional and semi-professional fighters from any discipline have more in common with each other than they do with the rank and file practitioners of their style?
Re: Is NHB a realistic standard for comparing styles?
In this context, isn’t it fair to say that professional and semi-professional fighters from any discipline have more in common with each other than they do with the rank and file practitioners of their style?
that’s actually the best i’ve ever heard it put.
besides, i think MMA has generally moved past the whole style vs. style mentality to a more fighter vs. fighter mentality.
if you watch the current UFCs, do they still make a big deal about style? i think they mention it on the tale of the tape. but they don’t go into it the way they used to.
“besides, i think MMA has generally moved past the whole style vs. style mentality to a more fighter vs. fighter mentality.”
I’m inclined to agree with you. The fighters seem to understand this, but the rank and file often don’t. I guess it’s a “reflected glory” kind of thing.
Sorry to repeat: NHB is a pretty realistic standard, for comparing pugilistic fighters. It is not a realistic venue for comparing non-sport, militaristic styles.
BJJ wasn’t always a sport. The fact it was successful in NHB propelled it’s popularity to the ability to have the sport we see today. I think NHB is an effective forum to showcase one man’s fighting prowess utilizing his chosen fighting style against another man’s. I don’t feel it reflects what somebody may see if encountered on the street.
If you take it for what it is SPORTfighting, then it’s great, a pretty level playing field.
It’s when the whole Street/Sport thing comes into play that it gets nasty.
Why people can’t just say “each to their own” I’ll never know. It’s as if people have to justify their arts “goodness” by the amount of people that train in it.
Sorry to sidetrack, waffling. Just seemed appropriate.
I can’t believe I never knew about this movie. One of my students brought it in one day. It didn’t ring a bell. I popped it in.
How do I say this, bad, bad, Leroy Brown Very Bad. Not Jet Li’s fighting or athletic skills mind you. It’s just the really bad…bad-guys and the English dubbing. Awe man when I complain you know it’s bad.
I can’t believe they got a [SIZE=3]mullet[/SIZE] man white dude for the main bad guy. Ok he had some skill and could do moves. It was the [SIZE=3]mullet[/SIZE] that did it for me.
…
Peace,
“O”
Just like Watchman to do a movie with Jet Li and not tell us. At least it wasn’t porn like the one Ryu did.
I’m still partial to the Toughman contest on FX for reality fighting.
I have not watched a UFC in quite a while. However, with the newer rules I have heard about, it definately seems that ground styles are pretty much the only way to go.
I know the first ones had less rules, but as uppper level fighters figured out ways to take advantage of ground fighters, rules changed and made it more difficult. I am not sure where they are right now.
I think it is simply sport fighting with rules. It is far less dangerous than boxing, so nobody goes in there thinking they will die. Nobody goes in there and is surprised while still cold dressed in street clothes and business shoes. There is no confusion or brain blank. There is no mental architecture to overcome that your wife might be raped if you lose the fight and then murdured in front of your children. I think it is sport fighting.
Also, among top level professionals, I don’t think it compares styles well at all. I think the best fighters win 90% of the time. In boxing which style wins world championships? The best fighters. Some are sluggers, some are pure boxers, and some are a combination of the two. The best fighters usually win regardless of which style of boxing they choose.
I think NHB is a better method of comparing techniques rather than styles. Right now NHB fighters see themselves as professional athletes. They hope to at one point make purses like professional athletes in other sports. All train harder than your average martial artist and some are sponsored to train and fight. These guys take fighting seriously and are very critical of techniques they see no way of working. I think with the popularity of NHB, we learned the affectiveness of grappling. We learned which kicks work best and which punches are most practical. We learned with joint manipulations will work, and which are only suited for prerehearsed dojo practice with a cooperating partner. We realized the importance of conditioning over technique and dispelled many martial arts myths. NHB is an avenue to test your technique, conditioning, and fighting ability. It is not an avenue for testing if an Aikidoka could beat a Karateka.
MA fanatic
This promised to be the most civilized discussion on these matters in a while until it was summarily booted from the main forum. It’s really irritating how arbitrary moderation is on these boards.
I doubt they even read the thread, they just saw the title and moved it.
NHB is most certainly not a good comparison of different styles due to the limitations it puts on so many other styles itenary of applications. A street fight would be a more honest comparison but of course NHB is nowhere near a street fight.
Originally posted by Repulsive Monkey NHB is most certainly not a good comparison of different styles due to the limitations it puts on so many other styles itenary of applications. A street fight would be a more honest comparison but of course NHB is nowhere near a street fight.
what are these limitations?
(just for the record, when UFC first began, there was controversy over eye gouges, you wouldn’t get disqualified for using them, only penalized. eye gouges have a better chance of landing in a grappling situation where you have more control over your opponent. So, if a guy eye gouged someone he’d get a point taken away, BUT if the guy couldn’t continue, the eye gouger still won the fight.)
And a style should not have to make drastic changes to adapt to an event, IMO.
