[QUOTE=Pork Chop;895618]the goal of a grappling match is not injury, it’s submission
the goal of a striking match (ie a real fight) is injury & concussion; though in some cases submission will serve.
what part of that is so hard to understand?[/QUOTE]
The part about how many deaths per year are required for something to be considered ‘fighting.’
[QUOTE=banditshaw;895617]I think MK might of meant ‘‘Hi Unk!’’
[/QUOTE]
oh yeah - posting style is dead on…
This is exactly why I don’t like Kung Fu.
It is true, that from my experience, most pure BJJers don’t want to trade hands and feet. Why is this surprising? It is a grappling style? Most guys who train hands and feet every week in every mentionable kung fu style don’t want to do the same either… that’s point No. 1.
Point No. 2 is that wrestling is not fighting.
Now we can go back and forth all day over whether boxing is fighting, MMA is fighting because of rules. Now we’re getting crafty. Trying to use speech and semantics to try to make one school of thought feel better about themselves. That’s not my thing. The points are clear.
if you’re a wuss wushi player and it makes you feel better that BJJers don’t want to fight either. Then stagnate and feel good about yourself. If you’re out of whack and think going 13 rounds with a professional boxer isn’t going to be a fight for survival, go ahead. Keep doing your form and thinking about eye pokes.
Type it all out. Talk about it. Find one of the many Kung Fu masters out there willing to make you a dynamo. Ya probably did already. Which is why this is all so low level to you.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;895708]This is exactly why I don’t like Kung Fu.
It is true, that from my experience, most pure BJJers don’t want to trade hands and feet. Why is this surprising? It is a grappling style? Most guys who train hands and feet every week in every mentionable kung fu style don’t want to do the same either… that’s point No. 1.
Point No. 2 is that wrestling is not fighting.
Now we can go back and forth all day over whether boxing is fighting, MMA is fighting because of rules. Now we’re getting crafty. Trying to use speech and semantics to try to make one school of thought feel better about themselves. That’s not my thing. The points are clear.
if you’re a wuss wushi player and it makes you feel better that BJJers don’t want to fight either. Then stagnate and feel good about yourself. If you’re out of whack and think going 13 rounds with a professional boxer isn’t going to be a fight for survival, go ahead. Keep doing your form and thinking about eye pokes.
Type it all out. Talk about it. Find one of the many Kung Fu masters out there willing to make you a dynamo. Ya probably did already. Which is why this is all so low level to you.[/QUOTE]
Ray, I think terminology is important. How can you not like Kungfu when you seek to attain it?
I think you could say, and more appropriately so that you don’t care for the state or quality of traditional chinese martial arts because they are lacking in kungfu.
It’s important to delineate. Otherwise you blanket all chinese martial arts, and frankly, some of them are just fine. Also, they are broad and varied and there needs to be context.
otherwise, youwind up looking like just a bitter person. It’s like saying “I don’t like all of russia because they all drink vodka and beat their spouses”. This is a stereotype and Traditional Chinese Martial Arts has a particularly bad stereotype within the circles of people who train to fight and not to appear badasssss. lol 
Ok, so let’s see - any kind of striking is ‘fighting’ and any kind of grappling is not. Is that it?
[QUOTE=Kansuke;895722]Ok, so let’s see - any kind of striking is ‘fighting’ and any kind of grappling is not. Is that it?[/QUOTE]
now yer learnin’ (passes Kool Aid)
I want credit for being the first to welcome unkowhatevertheheckitis back
PS: many, many, many BJJ people do not like getting hit and I would not characterize them as MMA people. MMA, by definition, includes striking. On the other hand, as I spend more and more time with wrestlers, they seem rather crazy and not afraid of anything (also, some of the stuff that is LEGAL is still rather nasty)
LOL, good points!
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;895730]I want credit for being the first to welcome unkowhatevertheheckitis back[/QUOTE]
yours is the superior intellect…
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;895730]PS: many, many, many BJJ people do not like getting hit[/QUOTE]
I would agree with that in context of the current environment, with people knowing how to effectively strike against grapplers (meaning maintaining their structure / base instead of getting taken down w/out a clue how to deal w/it…)
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;895730]On the other hand, as I spend more and more time with wrestlers, they seem rather crazy and not afraid of anything (also, some of the stuff that is LEGAL is still rather nasty)[/QUOTE]
yeah, I still remember the first time I played w/one of the NYU wrestling guys a bit - he threw an elbow in the middle of whatever it was he was doing, I was like “isn’t that illegal?”, he was like, “yeah, and your point?”; he basically told me that he got hit by stuff all the time, it was just part of the game…
Been working with George Pardos, former OSU wrestler, Mark Coleman’s wrestling coach, was assisstant coach at OSU. NOt that long ago stuff that was basicly submissions was still 100% legal. Plus, even today, shoulders, heads, knees and hips smack into you, they may not call it striking, but you end up just as black and blue. I’m supposed to go work out with Mark Coleman soon, that should be “fun” 
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;895720]
It’s important to delineate. Otherwise you blanket all chinese martial arts, and frankly, some of them are just fine. Also, they are broad and varied and there needs to be context.[/QUOTE]
I’m definitely not bitter. Having too much fun, enjoying a happy, wonderful life. Just one of the major principles I live by is being open and honest.
You are telling me some of these Chinese martial arts fine. Aside from San Da, which I view more as a modern art, like Sambo, drawing on finer universal techniques, which Kung Fu art is fine?
I define “fine” as being at least on level with modern hand to hand fighting standards.
Which of these arts, under which master, is competing successfully in kick boxing or MMA venues? If they’re not the sporting type, who have they beat?
I’m basically always keeping an eye out for “the good stuff.” The ones that have “the good stuff” don’t mind. They know they are golden and appreciate having discerning tastes.
Well, the very nature of any sport-competition would mean that the are would have to be changed to adapt to the rules. This is what traditionalists usually fight abut. There are many kung fu schools and fighters who compete in such events, and some probably even use a few regular techniques from their styles (dare I say forms), but in the end, their stand up fighting will look just like any other type of stand up fighting. If a guy is successful, he would probably be labeled as a glorified kickboxer, and if he is not, probably be given the same name too.
People can and will argue until they are blue, it wont change the fact that in order to be a successful fighter, one need to be able to adapt, change and grow.
I so hate that word traditional when people like to refer to some sort of weird art.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;895776]I’m definitely not bitter. Having too much fun, enjoying a happy, wonderful life. Just one of the major principles I live by is being open and honest.
You are telling me some of these Chinese martial arts fine. Aside from San Da, which I view more as a modern art, like Sambo, drawing on finer universal techniques, which Kung Fu art is fine?
I define “fine” as being at least on level with modern hand to hand fighting standards.
Which of these arts, under which master, is competing successfully in kick boxing or MMA venues? If they’re not the sporting type, who have they beat?
I’m basically always keeping an eye out for “the good stuff.” The ones that have “the good stuff” don’t mind. They know they are golden and appreciate having discerning tastes.[/QUOTE]
so you only like mma and if it’s not like mma you don’t like it?
as far which arts are fine, pick one and you will have the extreme end of dross and the other extreme end of great stuff. the same is true of mma, there’s crap and there’s good stuff. It all evens out in the end, ultimately it is not about style anyway, but I figure you mighta known that already anyway.
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;895732]yours is the superior intellect…
I would agree with that in context of the current environment, with people knowing how to effectively strike against grapplers (meaning maintaining their structure / base instead of getting taken down w/out a clue how to deal w/it…)
yeah, I still remember the first time I played w/one of the NYU wrestling guys a bit - he threw an elbow in the middle of whatever it was he was doing, I was like “isn’t that illegal?”, he was like, “yeah, and your point?”; he basically told me that he got hit by stuff all the time, it was just part of the game…[/QUOTE]
Stinker…
You now, ages ago (its seems), I had the chance to do a wrestling “seminar” with Stu Hart.
I think I am still in pain.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;895894]Stinker…
You now, ages ago (its seems), I had the chance to do a wrestling “seminar” with Stu Hart.
I think I am still in pain.[/QUOTE]
it’s because you were then, are now and always will be a Glorified Kickboxer (it’s also why your dog has fleas, your 401K tanked and your wife cheated on you with the lawn maintenance supervisor…)
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;895896]it’s because you were then, are now and always will be a Glorified Kickboxer (it’s also why your dog has fleas, your 401K tanked and your wife cheated on you with the lawn maintenance supervisor…)[/QUOTE]
Lawn maintenance supervisor?
I don’t even know what that is !
LOL !
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;895732]
yeah, I still remember the first time I played w/one of the NYU wrestling guys a bit - he threw an elbow in the middle of whatever it was he was doing, I was like “isn’t that illegal?”, he was like, “yeah, and your point?”; he basically told me that he got hit by stuff all the time, it was just part of the game…[/QUOTE]
Like I said before: Elbows are a definate part of wrestling; as long as you don’t get caught by the ref.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;895901]Lawn maintenance supervisor?
I don’t even know what that is !
LOL ![/QUOTE]
Head gardener.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;895901]Lawn maintenance supervisor?
I don’t even know what that is !
LOL ![/QUOTE]
Head gardener.
[QUOTE=SimonM;895911]Like I said before: Elbows are a definate part of wrestling; as long as you don’t get caught by the ref.[/QUOTE]
LOL, there’s a whole mess of stuff that is ‘part’ of wrestling. Basically anything you can get away with.
LOL!
This is true.