Kung fu vs. mma

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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At first, I believed that the UFC was representative of true street fighting. But now, having talked to some Sifus, I think that kung fu and other stand up martial arts might work in a real fight also.

Before the UFC, no one said that grappling was more realistic for real fighting. People fought for thousands of years, and no one came to that conclusion.

And I’ve seen Cung Le fight; he knows how to deal with takedowns, and how to perform them.

Even in the early UFCs, when a striker was matched up against another striker, the fight consisted mostly of blows. After clinching, the fighters would separate, and if they went to the ground, they would get back to their feet.

The most impressive thing about traditional martial arts is the ability of the practitioners to break lots of boards and bricks. I’m sure they would break bones in a real fight.

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3.2

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When I first heard about the UFC, I was convinced someone was going to die… I didn’t watch the first three though because I didn’t want to waste the money…

Someone later gave me a copy of the first three. My very first observation, despite how open the rules were, most of the participants stuck to their respective art formats, or at least to the stereotype of their art…

The Muay Thai guy had absolutely no grappling skill, he got taken down by a huge Judo guy who suddenly realized he could elbow, it was over quickly

The super ninja tried his famous spinning fall on his back, good for a score in the self defense division of an open tournament, fancy takedown, the karate guy starred at someone lying on his back in front of him and punched him ten million times

The American rules KB dude basicly kickboxed as per American rules

Ken Shamrock disappointed me, I had read about how “shootfighting” was a complete martial art, a month later I met a guy from the old UWF who explained how it was all worked pro wrestling

The only guy who was well rounded and used different tools was Royce Gracie, he obviously knew submssions and wrestling, but he also used kicks, elbows, head butts, knees, etc…

All in all, the early UFC’s were pathetic…

Today’s MMA fighter trains and fights the way martial arts were supposed to be, ie blanced between striking and grappling, standing and ground. They understand that it’s also about attributes, strength and conditioning…

A lot of traditional types still want to talk about “the rules” and how deadly some things are, fact remains, all that stuff was legal in early days, NO ONE USED THEM…

Why didn’t the traditional Okinawan Karate dude use some of those things? Or the karate dude? Or the many KF people who came and went? They were perfectly legal back then, the early UFC had no protective equipment…

They didn’t use them because usually they were on their backs eating punches before they could think…

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Pride is more entertaining… oh… and…

-1.0

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A lot of traditional types still want to talk about “the rules” and how deadly some things are, fact remains, all that stuff was legal in early days, NO ONE USED THEM…

I"m not one to usually cop the excuse that the rules slow a person down. However, to be fair I think your logic is flawed. While it may have been legal to eye gouge, or break limbs/joints - and somehow I seriously doubt it was legal - anyone with an ounce of smarts knows they would be in huge trouble for doing it. Now if you went into a tournemant knowing those things were condoned, and you werne’t going to get into trouble for doing them…

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OMG, some body got a DNA sample from the burnt carcass of the last dead horse, separated the live cells, cloned another horse, watched it grow, let it come to maturity and then
PROCEEDED TO BEAT IT TO DEATH , AGAIN!!!

p.s. TMA of any kind has more than just the “eyegouge”, its such a rediculous thing to cling to. As Ross said. the main weakness was their being used to a certain rule set. They couldn’t get it that they were out of their paradigm. Its a fighters main weakness, even for an MMAer. Since time immemorial, its been the same way, people get used to something and some smarty pants comes around and fights outside the box. Entire styles have been based on this practice.

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oh come on Abel, it isn’t that bad :smiley:

regarding original UFC rules, only biting and eye gouging were illegal… how many martial arts are so dependent upon these two tactics and how many martial artists actually practice these techniques? It’s a lame excuse

As for joint breaking, it was perfectly legal, and Royce broke an arm (maybe two)

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edit above

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able - I just use the eye gouge example cause it’s the most popular…

regarding original UFC rules, only biting and eye gouging were illegal… how many martial arts are so dependent upon these two tactics and how many martial artists actually practice these techniques? It’s a lame excuse

I beg to differ. Even if joint breaking or bone breaking weren’t in the rules, do you believe anyone who entered those competitions felt that they were still “legal”? When you go to a tournemant Ross, do you see in the rules anything about not using guns, knives, tanks, bombs or nuclear weapons? Cause if there ain’t a rule against it why not use them?

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I doubt if any professional fighter knowingly steps into a ring without knowing precisely what is and isn’t allowed within the context of the fight.

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red, your arguement is non sequitur.

And, eye gouging isn’t “popular” it just been repeated so many times. Its one of those “hundreth monkey” situations that the thing has become a cliche.

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Hello, lkfmdc

lkfmdc, I was hoping you would respond. You probably don’t remember me, but we exchanged posts briefly on www.mma.tv.

I was banned shortly after, but I read some of the long arguments you had with Your Father and the bjj people.

Do you think that San Da might become successful in mixed martial arts? I happened to see Cung Le in K-1 on ESPN 2. Do you think he could beat someone like Frank Shamrock?

And what do you think about pitting boxing against San Da? What is your opinion on pitting someone like Roy Jones Jr. or Antonio Tarver against Cung Le? (They are light heavyweights, right?)

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San Da people;

Please think big and really really big.

MMA stopped growing once they decided to be set with MT+BJJ.

However, there are so many and many MA’s out there.

Think BIIIIIIIII--------G.

:smiley:

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actually able, go back and read my statment and you’ll see it’s perfectly logical within the framework of the conversation.

Ross claims that the “too deadly for the ring/rules” excuse is invalid, since in the “old days” of NHB fighting, EVERYTHING was legal, since there “were no rules”

I claim that that is incorrect since society itself places rules on a sporting event of this fashion. Even though it doesn’t say I can’t kill my opponent in combat to win the match, I know it’s illegal according to my societies rules to kill my opponent, orotherwise maim him or use excessive force to accomplish my goals.
but thank you for playing…please come again.

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WOW THIS IS A REALLY GOOD THREAD

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Originally posted by red5angel
I claim that that is incorrect since society itself places rules on a sporting event of this fashion. Even though it doesn’t say I can’t kill my opponent in combat to win the match, I know it’s illegal according to my societies rules to kill my opponent, orotherwise maim him or use excessive force to accomplish my goals.
but thank you for playing…please come again.
So when Royce was breaking arms, to what societal norms was he subscribing?

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on example does not set a general rule. Breaks happen all the time in NHB, for various reasons and as far as I know legal repercussions are almost non existant, I assume because they sign a waiver and know what they are getting into. Not tapping out is essentially asking to have something broken.
The broader point is that I believe Ross’ assumption that because there “were no rules” in NHB to start with that the excuse that some peoples arts are too deadly does not apply. I’m not defending that excuse by any means, I believe for the most part that any art could be adapted if trained properly for any environment, generally speaking.

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Originally posted by SPJ
[B]San Da people;

Please think big and really really big.

MMA stopped growing once they decided to be set with MT+BJJ.

However, there are so many and many MA’s out there.

Think BIIIIIIIII--------G.

:smiley: [/B]
Many MMA fighters have backgrounds in many of these other martial arts. There is a reason the majority of them have chosen BJJ, boxing, wrestling, and Muay Thai.

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Muay Thai has become popular in MMA because it has the same close minded attitude that BJJ has, ie “we are the only way”, so the two camps seem to get along together…

If you think about it though logically MT has no wrestling, all the basic takedowns and trips are actually illegal. MT also teaches you to have no base, they stay so light (to kick) that they are very easy to pick up… San Da people figured this out a long time ago

San Da has certainly made it’s mark in MMA. The best example is Fedor, whose grappling is Sambo but his stand up coach is San Da

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This topic reminds me of the girl you used to date back in High School. You’ve had it enough to know it’s no good, but it’s been a while, so you decide to check it out as it might have gotten a little more interesting. Then you find out it still can’t give head worth a damn and wonder wtf you were thinking trying to get involved in that $hit again.