I’m not sure if this has been discussed before, I apologize if it has…
Can anyone speculate why Kung-Fu has never really been used in MMA championships such as UFC? I know some of the fighters have studied Kung-Fu, however I haven’t ever seen much showing of Kung-Fu technique and form. I personally think it has much to do with the incompatibility of the rules of UFC with some of the techniques we use in our art, but I’m curious to know what others think.
This thread isn’t meant to be inflammatory, and my intention isn’t to start a “who’s art is best” argument, I’m just after a discussion on the issue. As a novice of Shaolin Kung-Fu, maybe I can learn something here from the more experienced practitioners.
Is your first name Glutteous?
just kidding it is an old joke from monty python
really it is the rules that stop us
if we remove eyes or crush the throat in the first strike
it would be gladiator Mr Maximus. this is illegal.
Plus the Ufc is very much like WWF
i dont think we will look good on cam
I know i am ugly and i suspect many mantis brothers are the same (except Shirkers he is the shirtless wonder) unless he falls in rank this year instead of gaining.
Anyway If you have nothing to prove you quit hurting people. If you have a family you shoot first talk about Gung fu later.
I think the reason is this. The unrealistic training methods. Kung fu has there own contact training skills like push hand and rou shou,style verse style sparring and such. But they hardly ever do it. It seems like its 98% persent forms practice 2% push hands ,rou shou and sparring. The judo people do randori every class the Juijitsu people roll every class wrestlers wrestle ever class. Kung Fu guys need to push every class do rou shou every class ect. I put up a post about free push hands get together every week at my gym where I work. One guy came down once. I know there are at least 15 schools in NYC that teach Internal arts and only one person who wanted to push. If this was an offer to roll for free every week and it was up on the juijitsu forum you would probably see like 20 replys.
My school does 2 man drills, throws, and combat techniques every night.Those students that want to fight in san shou also spar 2 to 3 times a week. so every school is different.
However sport is sport and i make sure they know not to mistake the 2.
san shou, k1, thai boxing, and yes UFC all ==== sport.
Rugby has less protection than American football and can get rougher at times
but it is still a sport.
Not a personal attack, but these are some of the lamest reasons ever presented.
If you can reach the eyes or throat, then you can certainly restrain yourself to not injure them and must have enough skill to strike an opponent with a fist, palm or whatever. Poor excuse.
Who cares how you look when you fight. Silliness. WWF is a lot of acting. UFC fighters aren’t acting in the ring. They also don’t wear silk jammies and argue about who’s lineage is better than who’s. Nor do they worry about other’s interpretation of techniques and concepts: they concern themselves with skill and being successful in the ring.
Better, however, Chinese martial arts lose out when the practitioners of those systems stop fighting and instead make excuses. Fighting isn’t for everyone certainly, but the quality of CMA suffers when the martial aspect is minimized or marginalized.
The UFC, and Pride are the big leagues of MMA.
We don’t see any pure CMA in them for two reasons. One is that almost no CMA trains full time to fight in the ring under those rule sets. Another is that most CMA people are unable to come to terms with the fact that they would need to address other skill sets not necessarily found within thier system or taught by thier instructor in order to compete in those events.
**** cool c made some good points. There is a very small percentage of CMA’s, and really any MA’s base of practitioners that actually seek out and engage in combative training and events. For most people, its little more than an exotic hobby. Trying to get people together from different schools for healthy exchanges is difficult because of lack of interest and politics. There are those who are doing this though. There are those who are competing, or at least supporting those that do.
Kung Fu teaches you to take the easy way out fighting ie. punch the throat, hit the eyes, small joint manipulation, groin strikes, arm breaks, knee breaks, and other things intent on not allowing your opponent to live out the rest of their life happily. Some of those things are legal in UFC some are not. Can you in good conscious maim another athlet just because they got into a ring against you? I suspect there are few Kung Fu practitioners that could.
So to participate in a ring fight a kung fu practitioner must forget the way they train and revert to punching, kicking, and submission. These three methods to fighting do contain much depth and they take a lot of effort to be very skilled. They are overlooked by a lot of Kung Fu practitioners for the simple fact that they are not essential to their training, we take the easy path.
fighters are matched as closely as possible according to weight and training is geared towards the venue.
In the early UFC’s there was a total hodge podge of different fighters using different techniques and through the time until now, the ufc has evolved into what it is according to what is allowed and what works in that venue.
There’s guys from all kinds of different disciplines in teh ufc now, but they all are on the same page in regards to what is operable in a ufc ring.
they deal with stand up - clinch- ground.
Anyone is free to adapt their kungfu to meet the reqs of those ranges in the rule set given.
Anyway, because you don’t see guys doing jet li poses and throwing high energy jumping crescent kicks doesn’t mean no kungfu is at play in the octagon. there are lots of guys who have kungfu backgrounds that have simply adapted their training to fit the venue. There’s boxers who had to learn grappling in order to compete, there’s wrestlers who had to learn to box and so on. Eventually, the tactics will ****genize to fit the sport.
dont forget its illegal to use
chi strikes in any MMA match, plus you dont want to show your secret technique passed on to you from you master, who learned it from an old peasant in a mountain near the border of tibet and china.
striking the eyes, throat and twisting fingers are easy when done in 2 man drills, try doing it when you have a guy trying to rip you a new one and coming at you at full speed.
The UFC has the right to make their own rules and do their own thing. There could come a time when the public’s thirst for entertainment will take us back to the Roman times of real blood. The new federation to meet this need could be called the World Kung Fu Federation. Only people with charisma and the killer instinct would be allowed. No bland, inarticulate, boring fighters. You wouldn’t be able to follow heros for years like a WWF Hulk Hogan, because the life spans would be so short. There would be only one person to enterview after the bout. You would get ultimate reality fighting. There are some who would love to see a nasty concoction thrown in the eyes and then a throat being ripped out. A pipe to the head would thrill many.There would be no rules except one. There are no rules.
Come on!
If a kung fu person can get into a position where they could maim another competitor, then surely they could show enough restraint to follow a ruleset! What difference is it between the skills needed to land a strike to the chin, or a poke to the eyes? It’s amazing that in this day and age we still have people who think that a kung fu practitioner can’t compete because thier stuff is “too dangerous”.
If you’re trying to suggest that punching, kicking, and submissions are low level and that there’s much easier ways to defeat another person, then you must be a representative for the NRA.:rolleyes: A gun would be the easy path.
Otherwise, it takes skill to step into a ring and fight another trained competitor. More so, it provides an opportunity to hone skills that surely will come into play should a person ever truly need to fight for thier life. Also, it demands a level of fitness that surpasses the “CMA for health” crowd’s standards.
I’m not trying to advocate MMA, the UFC, or professional level fighting, but some competitive experience or at the very least some hard contact sparring with other martial artists of varying backgorunds is a logical, if not essential part of anyone’s training.
OK we have been through this so many times before but here it goes.
rent UFC 6 and 7 my kung fu brother joel sutton won with 8 step praying mantis kung fu. dont get me worng he had to mix up his fighting strategy a litlle but still his training and technques relied on prayingmantis kung fu and he won both of his bouts with it.
The point isn’t that poking the eyes is easier than hitting, the point is if I take your throat out, you quit fighting. I don’t have to worry about following through with more punches. We all know that one punch will end few fights. The moves I train in Kung Fu are meant to end the fight very quickly.
I have used my material in ring fights. It was fun to see how my Kung Fu compared to people that trained in punching, kicking and submission alone.
If you train to end a fight in seconds, the long fights of toe to toe sparring seem like a lot of worthless work. And no matter how good you are, if you want to play by UFC rules you are going have to work hard and get hit.
Unless you look back to the good ol UFC days when anything goes.
that’s not true at all. Does your style not punch? Do you not kick? Do you not lock? Do you not throw? All these things are legal. Heck, the grapplers, can’t actually BREAK the limbs, as they would in the street, so they have limitations too. And think about it - If I have you on the ground and under complete control, isn’t it easier for ME to eye gouge? allowing eye gouges would only give them more of an advantage on the ground.
Anyway If you have nothing to prove you quit hurting people.
You can always tell people who know nothing about the meaning of competition…
[I have used my material in ring fights. It was fun to see how my Kung Fu compared to people that trained in punching, kicking and submission alone.
Unless you look back to the good ol UFC days when anything goes.[/QUOTE]
so you got KTFO? one strike fights are rare, its mostly because of sucker punching. try fighting someone drunk or high, if a taser cant stop them you think a strike will? i highly doubt it… remember youre training in a control environment whether you adimit it or not , training in class is controlled youre going at a certain speed and power not going full force…
The problem there is that this is easier said than done. When you have someone in front of you with his guard up, body moving, limbs striking and who doesn’t want to get hit, small targets like the throat become infinitely harder to hit.
you will learn these things in any grappling class.
Some of those things are legal in UFC some are not. Can you in good conscious maim another athlet just because they got into a ring against you? I suspect there are few Kung Fu practitioners that could.
Surely you don’t think that this is the main reason why kung fu doesn’t have good showings at these events…
So to participate in a ring fight a kung fu practitioner must forget the way they train and revert to punching, kicking, and submission. These three methods to fighting do contain much depth and they take a lot of effort to be very skilled. They are overlooked by a lot of Kung Fu practitioners for the simple fact that they are not essential to their training, we take the easy path.
that’s funny, the last time I sparred someone and told him to hit me in the throat if he could, he couldn’t do it. Considering he was trying to hit such a small target on someone who didn’t want to be hit, it seems like his path was much harder. IN THEORY, it is the easy way, but in actual application, it is not. what’s wrong with kicking, punching and submission? your styles are supposedly built around ti, da, shuai and na, correct? If you are learning how to apply the principles behind your techniques, you can apply them in any way you choose - the banning of certain target areas should not be a big hinderance.
in some grappling matches certain moves are illegal like neck crank, heel hooks, toe locks, wrist locks because these could cause damage to a fighter, are they trained by the grapplers, yes! but are they used in matches if illegal no!
as for punching, kicking and throwing in kung fu, there are styles that have these techniques, punching WC, CLF, HUNG GAR as for throwing SHUAI JIAO. i m not an expert so i dont know what other style has throwing, punching or kicking
:rolleyes: