This weekend I was able to go and train with Carl Dechiara at his home school in Cleveland Ohio. While most of you know how I feel about the state of wingchun it is apparently unacceptable to say so here so I will try to be more constructive in my second post.
While I am still not going to blow sunshine up anyone’s butt, I have to say that saw something this weekend that I have yet to see in a wingchun school (up from 17-18 now since going to Cleveland).
They trained the basics constantly, single/double armed sticky hands, rooting drills, sparring, etc….. I never once saw them concern themselves so much with what do I do if this happens or how can I counter that? It’s not necessary if you are training correctly and smartly. The wing chun being taught there is incredible and does not need to concern itself with those details because as the sensitivity, precision, and rooting among other things, is practiced, they transcend having to worry about specifics.
I felt things there, the control, the precision, that I have never felt in another wingchun person. They each had a solid connection to the ground. Their energy was precise, drilling straight to my spine at all times always directed towards my centerline. The forward intent was always there and they were always attentive to where your energy was going, not down to the general area, or general direction, but to the centimeter.
The point was struck home for me that they are studying something very precise and very sensitive to energy, both theirs and their opponents. These are all things that in the other schools I visited were talked about but I never felt it like this.
You don’t have to believe me, all you have to do is go and check it out, see if it isn’t there, see if what I am talking about is made up or whatever. See if you can’t learn something?
Red5angel’s training
I know the other thread got closed … but I would like to hear some more about what made your weekend such an eye opening experience for you. We know you’re passionate … but now you seem even moreso …
Whas it something different from what you experienced at other seminars etc.?
Well, I have been to only a few seminars, two o fthem were with Boztepe. one was with some JKD guy who claimed to know alot about wingchun. I have visited to 18 schools and I guess the biggest difference would be the focus. In alot of schools they tend to focus on how to defeat something specific, or how to go back and forth with this technique or that one. They weren’t doing anything more advanced then sparring, other then that they were working the crap out of the basics! With the way they did warmups, SLT, and rooting drills all of them were very solidly ‘stuck’ to the ground! With dan chi, double sticky hands, Pak Sau they really worked the sensitivity. The higher up students could tell me an show me exactly where my energy was going all the time. It got sort of frustrating at times because I was constantly being redirected but it was good to see where all the working out leads to!
I was really impressed by the general energy of the place. Everyone seemed to have a pretty deep understanding of where they antd to be and where they were at at all times. They were all excited to be doing it and all in all I was very impressed, I have never been to a school with this sort of energy!
The students were varied, I mentioned the youngest, and incredible 11 year old. There was a gentleman with autism, a mentally challenged individual, a woman who had been in an accident and didnt have all the use of her legs. They expressed to me that all of thier training has helpes them to get passed some of thier own “handicaps”.
Gnugear - I should make it plain that only two of my post have been locked or moved but both for reasons I absolutely disagree with as they seem more a personal issue then for the general health of the forum. In the past I have had post deleted for using names and such and that is fine.
I absolutely agree Enter the whip! Before I met Carl the wingchun I practiced was horrible! But that is now changing!
Low-Cost Solution To Combating Mind-Control
Originally posted by red5angel
I absolutely agree Enter the whip! Before I met Carl the wingchun I practiced was horrible! But that is now changing!
Aluminum Foil Deflector Beanie
An Effective, Low-Cost Solution To Combating Mind-Control
You’ve got to get one of these.
That is indeed funny!!
Ive seen the alfoil beanie before, not bad though.
it is apparently unacceptable to say so here
It’s not necessarily unacceptable to lament about the parlous state of WC, if you have that opinion, but it seems to annoy lots of people when you say the same thing over and over in the same way without adding anything new.
While I am still not going to blow sunshine up anyone’s butt
This seems to be a fixation of yours, seeing as you mention it on every second thread. I take it Carl is excepted - his colon must be filled with sunshine to bursting point as a result of your posts.
On that subject, there appears little chance of anyone blowing any up your butt when you are so busy talking out if it. I hasten to add that such sunshine blowing is not a goal of mine.
This thread is, to quote an unnamed sports commentator, “like deja vu all over again”.
LOL@Anerlich!!!
Anerlich sez:This thread is, to quote an unnamed sports commentator, “like deja vu all over again”.
Apparently many of the same posts including the weekend training one are posted on the VTAA also.
Again, and again and again. Happy days are here again..
..this forum could be just a point of misdirection for you, to misguide potential enemies and such?
Care to eloborate on this?
Originally posted by red5angel
My point Grendel is that you talk alot about who you know but not a whole lot about what you know and that strikes me as odd.
Modesty prevents me from talking about myself. 
As for who I know, that’s circumstantial, not a virtue.
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You dont seem to get the points I am trying to talk about or make,
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That’s because you don’t make clear points. Try less over reaching and more practical topics.
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which makes you again, suspect.
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I get that a lot from the local gendarmes.
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I could also point to the bizarre personality change you had, going from telling me how to act and not to fight and argue on the net to doing the very same over night (literally).
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I am not aware that I have a personality.
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Someday I hope to meet many of the folks here on the forum, then they can feel what I am talking about, a little chi sau, maybe a little sparring I am sure is all it will take. thats the important part here Grendel, I am getting out, seeing it, touching hands, experimenting and researching…how about you? [/B]
I enjoy meeting new people and sharing Wing Chun insights. I do not try to “show” them anything unless they have a question about my Wing Chun. However, a piece of friendly advice, watch out when you touch hands with people who read this forum.
Regards,
Originally posted by red5angel
My topics are clear enough, I explain myself as much as I feel needs be, if it isnt understood, well I only talk about the basics so I guess someitmes even those may be hard to grasp?
If you think you’re being clear, you’re not. Saying you talk about basics is not the same as talking about basics. There are many “basics.” Talking generally about them doesn’t convey a clear idea, especially if you’re trying to reach someone without “good” basics. How would we know what we don’t know? I guess if one were to remember every comment you’ve posted, assuming anyone read them all, then you have actually touched on SOME basics. But someone else from another perspective might have something else in my when you use such a generic term.
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As for people on this forum, its not an issue, I am not concerned about it because if they are interested in fighting, they can go somewhere else, but working out, sparring, chi sau, whatever, its alright by me. [/B]
I’ll say again, you don’t know what you don’t know. I am suggesting that for the main, you shouldn’t expect to meet on good terms with many readers of KFO.
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The guys who talk tough arent the ghuys I am worried about,
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No. They are apparently the guys I’m worried about.
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actually I am not worried at all. When I get to meet some of these guys great, I think one way or the other they will understand where I am coming from.
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An unwarranted assumption, I feel.
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Or, like you they could choose to ignore what is so blatantly before them and continue to dream.
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Yes, they should all be dreamers like me. 
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Either way I will have walked away learning something everytime. [/B]
That’s the point. Apparently not.
Regards,
Well, John, I prefer to be a doer, not a dreamer. But lets talk about basics John, you say there are many, I say there arent that many, so what is your list of basics?
Red, no one is really disagreeing with your interpretations of Wing Chun principles. People are disagreeing with the manner in which you carry yourself in your posts. People are sick of hearing your opinion on whose Wing Chun you think is the best. Even so, you manage to stick in “Carl’s Wing Chun is the real deal” in practically every thread you start. And if that weren’t enough, you make sure you drill in your opinion that you think most everyone else is crap with every post. Look up the last 20 threads you started and see what percentage of them are saying essentially these two things.
You can’t go around flipping people off and telling them “Hey, it’s not my problem if you get upset when I flip you off. If you’re upset, YOU’RE the problem. middle finger”. But that is essentially what you’re doing here.
People aren’t complaining that the bible is wrong. They’re complaining that the preacher’s an idiot. Not that I’m calling you an idiot…
John, Dave, Kathy, myself, etc. aren’t objecting to your posts because we disagree with your Wing Chun. All of us have and still train with Ken so we get to feel personally “where the power comes from.” We object to your posts because we are concerned, and rightfully so, of how your posts reflect on the rest of us and on Ken. Just claiming that you speak for yourself is only a cheap way of not having to take responsibility for your words. Whether you like it or not, what you say and do reflects on your “family.” This is fact. You can’t change it. Now, if knowing this, you still carry on the way you do, you’re then basically telling us to p1ss off. As a result, you shouldn’t be surprised if more than a few people, including those of your own lineage, are upset with you.
I’m not particularly upset, nor do I harbor any ill feelings towards you. I’m simply making another attempt at explaining what so many others have attempted to explain to you previously. Hope you don’t take it the wrong way.
Regards,
Zhuge Liang
Originally posted by red5angel
You have stated you felt wingchun was lacking some things on the ground, I just think you need to take a closer look. Wingchun has all it needs, even on the ground.
I hope you are not saying that Wingchun is the .22 to BJJ’s M60?!
Hi Jason,
Could you expound on examples of Wing Chun applications on the ground? Do you practice these? Can you apply them?
Regards,
Haven’t yet learn to apply what I am now learning to the ground yet. I did learn some stuff from the old WC I was learning but it was pretty weak and more made up then anything. Some guy trying to graft other stuff to WC. Otherwise alot of those techniques can be used, but I dont like to discuss techniques because it is a waste of time. Especially over the internet, we could play the you do this I do that game all day and get no where.
Oh Yeah. Worried About Wasting Time!
Originally posted by red5angel
Haven’t yet learn to apply what I am now learning to the ground yet.
[much text ellided] but I dont like to discuss techniques because it is a waste of time. Especially over the internet, we could play the you do this I do that game all day and get no where.
Let’s not worry about wasting time at this late stage of the game.
For your many fans, there is a very short clip of two gentlemen in our lineage doing chi sao. It demonstrates the close proximity and relaxed state proper to “good” Wing Chun.
Go to www.wingchun.com and select “Wing Chun in Motion!” Look under San Jose Wing Chun.
Many other interesting clips too, including one of Yip Man hisself. Worth the trip.
Regards,
Well as I said to black and blue, we can discuss it all we want, and we can even swap videos and such, but until we touch hands, it doesnt mean a whole lot. I figure you are in the same lineage so you must be training the same way right?
Originally posted by red5angel
Well as I said to black and blue, we can discuss it all we want, and we can even swap videos and such, but until we touch hands, it doesnt mean a whole lot. I figure you are in the same lineage so you must be training the same way right?
Hi Jason,
I’ll answer your question off list.
As for your further prevarication, why not explictily answer? You have said you have plenty of time. Serious Wing Chun commentary goes on all the time around you on this forum. You should consider taking part if you want to be taken seriously.
Regards,
Originally posted by red5angel
Haven’t yet learn to apply what I am now learning to the ground yet. I did learn some stuff from the old WC I was learning but it was pretty weak and more made up then anything. Some guy trying to graft other stuff to WC. Otherwise alot of those techniques can be used, but I dont like to discuss techniques because it is a waste of time. Especially over the internet, we could play the you do this I do that game all day and get no where.
I think this is a long winded way of you saying, “I know nothing”.