What have your teachers told you this was fr in regards to learning to fight? I have been told hand eye coordination, structure, root, developing the movements of the style were reasons I was given for 2 man forms(I personally prefer 2 women together forms, just admitting the truth here ).
Is this the best way to develop all of the above? Are two man forms needed only for beginners or does everyone need them at different points?
I have been exposed to different kinds in terms of energy. For example some flowed more to develop flowy spring power, some were harder an hurt my arms, some were just two guys literally crashing into each other. Sparring did not look like Or feel like any of these which you all know.
as long as the routine is predetermined, the contextual interference effect is quite low, and does not approximate ārealā fighting in any way (motor learning research has shown time and again that blocked practice is beneficial at the very early stages of motor skill acquisition, but that soon after it has no positive and even at times a detrimental effect on retention and transfer);
CTS always told us that most two-person sets were good for shows; there were two he taught that were more ārealisticā, insofar as they were ostensibly counters and counter-to-counters: one was a set on the plum-flower poles, another he taught us was a grappling-type routine; whether they would actually āworkā would be the issue of course - the plum-flower set was cool, but honestly, a bit of an artifact in terms of the footwork, which is supposedly the āsecretā of using the stumps, it teaches you where you are supposed to step, but thatās pretty contrived beyond that u shud move at oblique angles rather than straight into someone (derr); for the grappling set, lots of the techniques were stuff u do see in other grappling arts; but really, u would be better off just breaking down the moves, or perhaps joining a SAMBO school evenā¦
I like taiji-style 2-person flow-drills, but thatās from a rehab / health perspective - there are opportunities in that sort of thing for neuro-muscular re-education that are rather unique - itās a good way to get core-activation going in a way that is more functional than lying on ur back squeezing ur transverse abdominals during leg lifts
[QUOTE=RWilson;1186027]What have your teachers told you this was fr in regards to learning to fight? I have been told hand eye coordination, structure, root, developing the movements of the style were reasons I was given for 2 man forms(I personally prefer 2 women together forms, just admitting the truth here ).
Is this the best way to develop all of the above? Are two man forms needed only for beginners or does everyone need them at different points?
I have been exposed to different kinds in terms of energy. For example some flowed more to develop flowy spring power, some were harder an hurt my arms, some were just two guys literally crashing into each other. Sparring did not look like Or feel like any of these which you all know.[/QUOTE]
IMO - so people wouldnāt mutate applications because the empty hand solo routines have a lot of obscure movements. Other than that - they are just like most every other form, theyāre for show.
good for beginners, establishing movement and reactions with zero pressure (which is increased with studentsā development) while developing structure-the first thing to go out the window when the pressureās on.
Once this has been established, the set should be dropped and replaced with more alive training. Many movements such as stepping back three times and blocking, actually teaches bad habits. From then on in, itās all for show.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1186035]good for beginners, establishing movement and reactions with zero pressure (which is increased with studentsā development) while developing structure-the first thing to go out the window when the pressureās on.
Once this has been established, the set should be dropped and replaced with more alive training. Many movements such as stepping back three times and blocking, actually teaches bad habits. From then on in, itās all for show.[/QUOTE]
Do you feel the same about the Mor Kiu bridge seeking set of dragon boxing? I know you are familiar with southern short hand styles but I am not sure if you know about dragon boxing. Or how about the short hand two man sets from your shorthand styles?
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1186031]as long as the routine is predetermined, the contextual interference effect is quite low, and does not approximate ārealā fighting in any way (motor learning research has shown time and again that blocked practice is beneficial at the very early stages of motor skill acquisition, but that soon after it has no positive and even at times a detrimental effect on retention and transfer);
CTS always told us that most two-person sets were good for shows; there were two he taught that were more ārealisticā, insofar as they were ostensibly counters and counter-to-counters: one was a set on the plum-flower poles, another he taught us was a grappling-type routine; whether they would actually āworkā would be the issue of course - the plum-flower set was cool, but honestly, a bit of an artifact in terms of the footwork, which is supposedly the āsecretā of using the stumps, it teaches you where you are supposed to step, but thatās pretty contrived beyond that u shud move at oblique angles rather than straight into someone (derr); for the grappling set, lots of the techniques were stuff u do see in other grappling arts; but really, u would be better off just breaking down the moves, or perhaps joining a SAMBO school evenā¦
I like taiji-style 2-person flow-drills, but thatās from a rehab / health perspective - there are opportunities in that sort of thing for neuro-muscular re-education that are rather unique - itās a good way to get core-activation going in a way that is more functional than lying on ur back squeezing ur transverse abdominals during leg lifts[/QUOTE]
I agree with the above. That is a good way of putting it.
not familiar with this set, do you have a youtube link?
I have a friend who does Lung Ying Moor Kiu and they just go free form when they train the bridge-closer to a sparring push hands with strikes.
In SPM-the first two man set (sam bo ging) is as I described above. After you reach a certain level of skill and understanding, it no longer serves you, and is disgarded for more alive training.
The second two-man set (sup bot dim) is really more free form. You attack each other with each move and you react-wherever it goes, it goes. It is more sparring but with a āstructuredā beginning..then all hell breaks loose!
two-man sets are like Karateās ippon kumite-one step sparring.
This drill is extremely basic, as it is very structured and controlled. The person attacking does so by stepping in with a reverse punch which is then held, while the defender performs the counter. For beginners, it teaches distance, timing, reaction in a safe controlled fashion.
The big mistake many Karate schools make is that instead of then taking it to more alive training, say, against a jab, then gearing up and picking up the pace, they created two-step and āadvancedā three step sparring. YIKES!
Any time you are stepping back three times and blocking (which is seen in many two-man sets and drills, and is solely designed for rank beginners) you are training yourself to be ineffective. You should shut your opponent down on the first beat. (actually on the first half-beat!) yet, we see many high level Masters (yeah, I thought youād like that) demonstrating this exact thing.
they deleted a thread about sweet potatoes?
BLASPHEMY!
I love sweet potatoes! Sweet potato fries, sweet potato chips, sweet potato soupā¦
hmm..sounds like Forest Gumpā¦
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1186054]they deleted a thread about sweet potatoes?
BLASPHEMY!
I love sweet potatoes! Sweet potato fries, sweet potato chips, sweet potato soupā¦
hmm..sounds like Forest Gumpā¦[/QUOTE]
Man, i love sweet potaotes but i can never get fries to get crispy. Mind you, i donāt have a deep fryer and use the oven. They always turn out soft. Any tips Ten?
[QUOTE=Brule;1186062]Man, i love sweet potaotes but i can never get fries to get crispy. Mind you, i donāt have a deep fryer and use the oven. They always turn out soft. Any tips Ten?[/QUOTE]
you can try brushing them with oil before placing them in the oven.
just found this-sounds tasty- http://www.instructables.com/id/Perfect-Oven-Sweet-Potato-Fries/
[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1186031]as long as the routine is predetermined, the contextual interference effect is quite low, and does not approximate ārealā fighting in any way (motor learning research has shown time and again that blocked practice is beneficial at the very early stages of motor skill acquisition, but that soon after it has no positive and even at times a detrimental effect on retention and transfer);
CTS always told us that most two-person sets were good for shows; there were two he taught that were more ārealisticā, insofar as they were ostensibly counters and counter-to-counters: one was a set on the plum-flower poles, another he taught us was a grappling-type routine; whether they would actually āworkā would be the issue of course - the plum-flower set was cool, but honestly, a bit of an artifact in terms of the footwork, which is supposedly the āsecretā of using the stumps, it teaches you where you are supposed to step, but thatās pretty contrived beyond that u shud move at oblique angles rather than straight into someone (derr); for the grappling set, lots of the techniques were stuff u do see in other grappling arts; but really, u would be better off just breaking down the moves, or perhaps joining a SAMBO school evenā¦
I like taiji-style 2-person flow-drills, but thatās from a rehab / health perspective - there are opportunities in that sort of thing for neuro-muscular re-education that are rather unique - itās a good way to get core-activation going in a way that is more functional than lying on ur back squeezing ur transverse abdominals during leg lifts[/QUOTE]
two-man sets are like Karateās ippon kumite-one step sparring.
This drill is extremely basic, as it is very structured and controlled. The person attacking does so by stepping in with a reverse punch which is then held, while the defender performs the counter. For beginners, it teaches distance, timing, reaction in a safe controlled fashion.
The big mistake many Karate schools make is that instead of then taking it to more alive training, say, against a jab, then gearing up and picking up the pace, they created two-step and āadvancedā three step sparring. YIKES!
Any time you are stepping back three times and blocking (which is seen in many two-man sets and drills, and is solely designed for rank beginners) you are training yourself to be ineffective. You should shut your opponent down on the first beat. (actually on the first half-beat!) yet, we see many high level Masters (yeah, I thought youād like that) demonstrating this exact thing.[/QUOTE]
In the karate and TKD systems I learned, you progressed in thus manner:
3step
2step
1step
1step semi-freestyle ( predetermined attack, any counter)
1step freestyle ( no predetermined attack, but established roles of who attacks and who defends).
Freestyle sparring ( controlled with gear) was taught in the first couple of months anyways.
The āstep sparringā was used to grade the student and to work on technique.
[QUOTE=RWilson;1186027]What have your teachers told you this was fr in regards to learning to fight?[/QUOTE]
Lets the students begin to see the difference between form and usage.
In usage there is a lot of adjustment details to make in movement, distance, and timing because of the partner.
This comes out when the partners use force and go to the targets at speed whether empty hands or with weapons.
Most 2 man forms are too cooperative with partners too far apart, from what Iāve seen.
[QUOTE=RWilson;1186027]Are two man forms needed only for beginners or does everyone need them at different points?[/QUOTE]
Useful at the intermediate level so people donāt get stuck in beginner mode thinking that they are supposed to be posing like a noob learning a form.
I like 2 men form better than solo form. In another 2 men form, I learned right jab, left cross, right hook, left hook combo that I had only seen in one prey mantis solo drill.
I like 2 men form better than solo form. In another 2 men form, I learned right jab, left cross, right hook, left hook combo that I had only seen in one prey mantis solo drill.[/QUOTE]
Do you ever have the students do the sequence at sparring speed with running footwork?
[QUOTE=-N-;1186116]Do you ever have the students do the sequence at sparring speed with running footwork?[/QUOTE]
During high school, we used to demo in much faster speed. In one high school event, my longfist brothers demo spear vs. Guan Dao. They did in such fast speed that one guy didnāt dodge the spear fast enough, the spear went into another guyās shoulder. After that, we slow down the 2 men form speed for safe purpose. In the longfist system, we have a lot of 2 men weapon forms such as:
Spear vs. Guan dao,
Dao vs, spear,
Jian vs. Jian.
ā¦
[QUOTE=-N-;1186113]Most 2 man forms are too cooperative with partners too far apart, from what Iāve seen.[/QUOTE]
I donāt like TCMA 2 men forms. I prefer to design my own. This way I can adjust the distance to be more combat realistic.
).