…two…er…three peas in a pod.
I’m outta this thread!
[QUOTE=HardWork8;888019]
Believe me when anyone asks me to recommend a martial art for fast results then I recommend them to practice kickboxing (also boxing and even BJJ).
[/QUOTE]
Well. I have to tell you. I want fast results for myself and for the people that I train with.
So, there should be NO difference with Wing Chun training. Anything other than fast results in a TMA is about agendas, making lots and lots of money and grandmasterofalmightyness.
Ill favor education over movements any day Its always been ABOUT, whos the better chess player and with the quick fix, one will always get lost on the board
Its not how tough you are, its all about how smart one is
Why the quick fix, its not like one is going to war or something? And well over 75 of the people here have never been in a real street fight anyway, I say if you want to waste your time, then do it metaphysically, working the brain as well the body
Ali Rahim.
and if you can bring poof of my mixing the arts,
Lol, I don’t have any real interest in what you do.
I don’t know why you want me to bring a poof along, though. Are you trying to make your gym gay friendly or something?
Did the fury win?
That’s madness… You charge me of mixing arts, and then when asked to back up your claim, you said that you “hold no interest in what I do”…
Then why make such a reply; is it out of pure deception, and of twisting and turning the truth around, while using the term “gay gym” as if that would hurt something or me… I don’t share their beliefs, but they have the right to choose whom ever they want to be with, and they should be respected just like everyone else… Your cynical calculation about h0m0sexuality (overtone) and me is only fueled by pure hate…
Talk about falling down a cliff while hitting every rock, branch and shrubbery alone the way, you just put your name right next to that…
And if you really don’t care about what I do, then why asks about a 17 year old kid that I teach? I only have two words for you sir. Grow Up!!!
Ali Rahim.
That’s madness… You charge me of mixing arts, and then when asked to back up your claim, you said that you “hold no interest in what I do”…
Then why make such a reply; is it out of pure deception, and of twisting and turning the truth around, while using the term “gay gym” as if that would hurt something or me? I don’t share their beliefs, but they have the right to choose whom ever they want to be with, and they should be respected just like everyone else… Your cynical calculation about h0m0sexuality (overtone) and me is only fueled by pure hate…
Talk about falling down a cliff while hitting every rock, branch and shrubbery alone the way, you just put your name right next to that…
And if you really don’t care about what I do, then why asks about a 17 year old kid that I teach? I only have two words for you sir. Grow Up!!!
Ali Rahim.
That’s madness… You charge me of mixing arts, and then when asked to back up your claim, you said that you “hold no interest in what I do”…
Then why make such a reply; is it out of pure deception, and of twisting and turning the truth around, while using the term “gay gym” as if that would hurt something or me? I don’t share their beliefs, but they have the right to choose whom ever they want to be with, and they should be respected just like everyone else… Your cynical calculation about h0m0sexuality (overtone) and me is only fueled by pure hate…
Talk about falling down a cliff while hitting every rock, branch and shrubbery alone the way, you just put your name right next to that…
And if you really don’t care about what I do, then why asks about a 17 year old kid that I teach? I only have two words for you sir, Grow Up!!!
Ali Rahim.
That’s madness… You charge me of mixing arts, and then when asked to back up your claim; you said, that you “hold no interest in what I do”…
Then why make such a reply; is it out of pure deception, and of twisting and turning the truth around, while using the term “gay gym” as if that would hurt something or me? I don’t share their beliefs, but they have the right to choose whom ever they want to be with, and they should be respected just like everyone else… Your cynical calculation about h0m0sexuality (overtone) and me is only fueled by pure hate…
Talk about falling down a cliff while hitting every rock, branch and shrubbery alone the way, you just put your name right next to that…
And if you really don’t care about what I do, then why asks about a 17 year old kid that I teach? I only have two words for you sir, Grow Up!!!
Ali Rahim.
Wing Chun/Kali- an update
Well, I can admit to mixing the h e l l out of a video though…lol
Then why make such a reply; is it out of pure deception, and of twisting and turning the truth around, while using the term gay gym as if that would hurt something or me? I dont share their beliefs, but they have the right to choose whom ever they want to be with, and they should be respected just like everyone else… Your cynical calculation about h0m0sexuality (overtone) and me is only fueled by pure hate
LOL, you made a typo. I made a joke about it referencing gays. As a BJJ practitioner, I get accused of being gay regularly. Not that there’s anything wrong with that. Jeez, talk about touchy.
why asks about a 17 year old kid that I teach?
There’s a whole thread about him (“Did the Fury win?”), which you somehow managed to miss despite the fact it asks you the same question repeatedly. Just a reminder. I guess I managed to push a few buttons there.
I only have two words for you sir, Grow Up!!!
I only have two words for you (and one exclamation mark) … Anger Management!
[QUOTE=couch;888259]Well. I have to tell you. I want fast results for myself and for the people that I train with.[/quote]
That is fair enough, but real kung fu training was never about fast results, even if during periods of turmoil in China’s history one can assume that some short cuts were made in some schools (and presumably by genuine masters or sifus of kung fu and not Tai Kwon Do or etc.). For example emphasising the weapon’s mastery over unarmed combat skills.
The difference is the WING CHUN training itself which encompasses forms and the internals among other things just like other major (and non-major) kung fu styles. Once you pick and choose the aspects of a given style then you are moving away from that style.
First of all, training in the authentic way will give you BETTER results, but of course it will take longer.
Secondly, many modern schools of MAs that teach the realistic stuff can also be regarded as money making scams. All one needs to do is look at some of their “defenses” against knife attacks.:eek:
What I am saying is that there are schools on both sides that are scams but the fact remains that the study of real kung fu and its successful application in self defense takes longer than that of Muy Thai or even BJJ. The reason being that the average kung fu style is much richer and has many more aspects to it than the styles named above.
If you make any short cuts then that means you are cutting out aspects that were in the original design of a given style, meaning that you are not teaching THAT style anymore but b@stardized version.
And in my opinion describing a b@stardized form of fighting as Wing Chun is not a very honest way of teaching. However, there is nothing stopping anyone calling it “Modern Self Defense style of XYZ based on Wing Chun”, which would be a more honest way of describing what is taught in many WC schools nowadays.
[QUOTE=Ali. R;888200]Yeah, you got that right… It seems to me that; the more they speak the more it reminds me of ‘Homer Simpson’ falling down a cliff while hitting every rock, branch and shrubbery alone the way, and at the same time escalating their true kung fu understanding to a major halt…
I’m getting more laughs to the equivalent of a bomb, kind da like an explosion of an unmanned firework factory…
Take care,
Ali Rahim.[/QUOTE]
The laughs that this forum provides are good for both our healths and at the end of the day they outclass the Comedy Channel and they are much cheaper at the same time.
[QUOTE=anerlich;888106]Yep. Prepare to be assimilated.[/quote]
I was “assimilated” into Glorified Kickboxing during my teens, in the 1980’s when I joined and trained in a school that claimed to be teaching “Chinese Boxing”. However what they taught was nothing more than a glorified form of kickboxing(so beloved by the many “kung fu-ists” posting in this forum), and honestly speaking it was not a bad school at all, as far as kickboxing was concerned but it WAS NOT REAL KUNG FU!
I have since grown out of training in kickboxing while thinking that it is kung fu and you will too, maybe in your next life, but you will grow out of it.
Says the man who practices “kung fu” but without the internals…LOL!
Says the man who practices “kung fu” together with BJJ and MMA…LOL!
Says the man who has no idea about the grappling techniques present in Wing Chun…an art that he apparently teaches.:eek:
You need to do some serious research on kung fu and find some serious answers and let me help you on your way by telling you that you are not going to find those answers in a BJJ nor an MMA school.
[QUOTE=Graychuan;888281]Well, I can admit to mixing the h e l l out of a video though…lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lGs28ywwct4[/QUOTE]
Interesting video it seems that Kali compliments Wing Chun and with good reason too. I remember being told by my sifu that Kali complimented Wing Chun quiet well.
The evidence for my “reverse black hole” hypothesis continues to accumulate.
[QUOTE=anerlich;888297]The evidence for my “reverse black hole” hypothesis continues to accumulate.[/QUOTE]
Only in your martially confused mind or shall I say you “MMA” mind?.
HW8 wrote:
during my teens, in the 1980’s
A teenager in the 1980’s? Hmmm. From his posts, he sounds like he’s yet to go through puberty.
OnTopic: the clip was OK.
Word ta Big Bird, mane!
[QUOTE=HardWork8;888296]Interesting video it seems that Kali compliments Wing Chun and with good reason too. I remember being told by my sifu that Kali complimented Wing Chun quiet well.[/QUOTE]
Ive been told the same. Ive also seen a general consensus on this and other forums. I havent seen a WC forum or group that doesnt have a Kali/Escrima/Arnis/etc. section and vice versa. As much as I trust my own experience in the arts and classical weapons I never really could contribute one way or another because I hadnt studied Sticks yet. Now that I am a humble two months in I cant help but to notice the basic drills of footwork are almost if not identical to Sek Ma and Som Gat Ma footwork in WC.
Most intersting is how the art Kali/Escrima/Arnis/IllustrussiWho? are all actually complete Fillipino Martial Arts that take you through a whole science of Sticks to Swords to Knives to Emptyhands. A Very Complete System.
Ive posted before about how Wing Chun as a teaching system teaches you from the inside-out although you fight outside-in. ( Ex. Slt-in close basic hand movements, CK- bridging sinking controlling, Bil Gee-closing bridging to gain initial contact or if contact is lost, like going to multiple opponents.). In Kali it seems to go from Sticks to Shortswords to Knives to Empty Hands… Outside-in. Our Basic class structure is Warm-ups, drills, partner drills, basic technique with single stick, then with tantos(we like the tantos because they are cheap, and sturdy. You can really file a cutting motion on an oponent without it folding up or bending like the plastic or rubber knives.), then the same technique again with empty hands. Havent done anything with double sticks yet except the Heaven Six strikes.
Guru Ignacio is Philipino of Chinese ancestry. He originally learned from uncles in the islands. His grandfather actually moved to America not long after Guru and his training continued. Guru also has training in the Villabrille-Lacoste system. He has told of how in the old tribes one could tell the leaders from the soldiers because the highest rank chief had the smallest blade. I thought this was way kool.
I do not have the form but from what I have seen the Baat Chaam Dao has a ready stance with one hand slightly back and the other forward, both on guard and one leg slightly back. This is the way I am taught in Ignacio as well.
There is basic Form, Strikes, Blocks , Structure( Alot of triangles!!!) and Footwork but Ignacio doesnt concentrate on specific applications as much. More natural flow and forward momentum belive it or not( Its very apparent at the knives and empty hand stage).
Now remember my resume, Kempo14, TCC10,WC2, KALI 2/12. So for what all that hot air is worth Im having a blast and getting a **** good workout.
[QUOTE=anerlich;888301]HW8 wrote:
A teenager in the 1980’s? Hmmm. From his posts, he sounds like he’s yet to go through puberty.[/quote]
Why, because “he” practises REAL kung fu while you don’t?
Or is it because “he” looks at kung fu as a rich martial art that needs to be practised holistically including its internal training, etc. while you don’t?
Or maybe it is because “he” searchs for his answers inside kung fu and other relevant circles while you don’t, preferring to search for your ‘enlightenment’ inside the knucklehead circles!
Sheesh. The more and more I read your deregotary posts, the less and less I want to visit Australia.
[QUOTE=HardWork8;888283]That is fair enough, but real kung fu training was never about fast results, even if during periods of turmoil in China’s history one can assume that some short cuts were made in some schools (and presumably by genuine masters or sifus of kung fu and not Tai Kwon Do or etc.). For example emphasising the weapon’s mastery over unarmed combat skills.
[/QUOTE]
“Real Kung-Fu” was never meant for fast results, hey? Where do you think all this Kung-Fu came from? People wanting to fight to start and end conflict (Read: War). So just like the armies of today - who need to learn things fast for conflict - Kung-Fu is no different.
The difference is the WING CHUN training itself which encompasses forms and the internals among other things just like other major (and non-major) kung fu styles. Once you pick and choose the aspects of a given style then you are moving away from that style.
The only thing Wing Chun training ‘does’ is reprogram the body’s movements to augment your survival rate in combat. It teaches simple concepts like attacking the attack as a form of defense. In its most basic inception - it is a quick and dirty way of hitting your opponent. There is a reason it is sometimes referred to as Gangster Fist: it’s not flashy and gets the job (kicking a$$) done quickly.
If you make any short cuts then that means you are cutting out aspects that were in the original design of a given style, meaning that you are not teaching THAT style anymore but b@stardized version.
Again, the only thing these styles were designed for is war and fighting. When you get into all the added appendages of styles, it’s more about selling something the public thinks what martial arts is all about from watching popular culture, etc. It’s also about ‘filling a curriculum’ and keeping their rice bowl filled (and to themselves).
And in my opinion describing a b@stardized form of fighting as Wing Chun is not a very honest way of teaching.
And teaching someone some ‘internal’ BS (I am a Registered Acupuncturist who believes in Qi/Shen) while they came to lean to fight is wasting someone’s time.
Here’s a good read on the whole subject with a nice ‘dig’ on how this whole Shaolin Temple link that everyone claims perhaps could have sprung from popular culture:
http://www.clubbchimera.com/?p=358
Here’s the first quote in the article:
“Prior to the end of the Qing Dynasty, Chinese martial arts had one goal, pure and simple: winning confrontations through intimidation, the use of weapons, or the use of one’s fists…Chinese martial arts were considered to be a physical skill, a manual skill; they were not linked to any esoteric philosophy, nor were they viewed as a from of character development, religious practice, or spiritual development”.
- “Chinese Martial Arts Training Manuals: A Historical Survey”, Brian Kennedy and Elizabeth Guo