my visit with hendrik

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
341

Mr. Hendrik

I enjoy your posts but am sorry to say I do not think my continued participation is possible.

I do not see how one can have an adult discussion when others don’t read what is written but rather add to or filter through their own beliefs. I have never been exposed to a group so ready to attack and so reluctant to ask for further clarification or explanation. Discussion is not possible with a closed mind with near religious fervor and belief.

I do not know how you can continue to do it. Either strength of character and immense desire to share or you are a masochist:D

342

[QUOTE=horserider;1069895]Hi horserider,

If you re-read your first post, there is a heavy implication of no movement.

Not mis-communication. You made your own additions to what was written. I implied nothing. You added your own meanings and then went on to semantic hairsplitting for your own purposes.

I would expect an adult to tell me they did not understand what i said and could I explain further.

To review. Your agreement was that a demonstration of wing chun inch force consisted of the following.
A. twisting if the waist. My reply. No,no waist twisting.
B. Stepping into the target. My reply No,no stepping.
C. pulling back of left shoulder to propel right. My reply No,no pulling back of one shoulder to generate momentum for the other.

This is all I am talking about . Nothing else. Nothing implied.

When you stand at rest then raise your and an inch is that momentum? If so fine. However it is not in the same league as what was being discussed. Stepping and 2 different rotational movements to generate force.

There was no discussion or mention of methods of using bones and tendons.

Nothing mysteries or magical. this is the very first thing Wing Chun begins to train after one opens the stance in SLT. I find it strange that someone can talk about wing chun yet not have an understanding of the first thing trained.[/QUOTE]

You implied a great deal dimwit. Do not blame the reader for your inability to be clear when you write!

What? Are you Hendrik Jr.? You think your job is to bait people into pleading with you to present more information in order for your vague assertions be made more clear, so we may be blessed by your rarefied wisdom?

How about you just be more clear from the beginning? How about instead of saying what you “think” isn’t happening, you state what “IS” happening and THEN describe it in a clear manner? We aren’t mindreaders here! We aren’t responsible to know what is inside your innermost thoughts while you are posting your poorly worded comments!

What is with you guys? You claim you have knowledge of things you can’t even communicate clearly to others!

You, like Hendrik, appear to have little to no awareness of your bodies.

[QUOTE=horserider;1069896]Mr. Hendrik

I enjoy your posts but am sorry to say I do not think my continued participation is possible.

I do not see how one can have an adult discussion when others don’t read what is written but rather add to or filter through their own beliefs. I have never been exposed to a group so ready to attack and so reluctant to ask for further clarification or explanation. Discussion is not possible with a closed mind with near religious fervor and belief.

I do not know how you can continue to do it. Either strength of character and immense desire to share or you are a masochist:D[/QUOTE]

No, he is as dumb as a door, apparently just like you! He can keep posting and posting because he is narrow-minded and cannot see any perspective other than his own! He can keep posting because he is ignorant of anything that doesn’t go on within his own scrambled up mind!

343

Hendrik,

Getting tossed around by Mas Oyama is NOT the same thing as standing still and having someone push on you while you don’t move.

Your comparison is like saying, “Just because someone can win while playing the video game Streetfighter, they can win a REAL streefight!” There is a huge difference between the two. One is PRETEND fighting, the other is REAL fighting!

Your little game with theo was just that, A GAME!!!

344

There are plenty of good sport fighter who do great in competition but freeze in real fighting.

I venture that there are probably more guys who do internal training, chi sao and “structure demonstrations” - are they good? at what, and who could tell and how? - who freeze in real fighting.

Discussion is not possible with a closed mind with near religious fervor and belief.

I was thinking the same thing, but probably not about the same individuals.

I do not know how you can continue to do it.

“How” is easy. “Why” is the more difficult question.

345

I enjoy your posts but am sorry to say I do not think my continued participation is possible.

Free feel to not post, I enjoy your sharing too.

I do not see how one can have an adult discussion when others don’t read what is written but rather add to or filter through their own beliefs. I have never been exposed to a group so ready to attack and so reluctant to ask for further clarification or explanation. Discussion is not possible with a closed mind with near religious fervor and belief.

Not everyone is be able to discuss. Different mind set, different attitude, different value system, different believe. So learn to ignore is the key.

I do not know how you can continue to do it. Either strength of character and immense desire to share or you are a masochist:D

I actually not doing it as most think.

A few thing I wan to share with you. since you are some one who is a “know music”.

1, lets get to 1850, after the opium war, the chinese was betray and lost via Qing’s corruption. lots of people in depress and discourage, Chinese art were humilated openly.
we call our art Wing Chun or praise for Spring. the Opera Ancestors seeing these and go for uprising. They beat the Westener army in Shang Hai and the myth of Westener army is invisible is broken and no more magic.

Think, and Think hard, without a lots of personal cultivation, how can these ancestors handle those stuffs? from totally lost to broken the myth beliving they can do it. and They have done it. Read my article on the Shai Hai connection.

Like the Christian, even standing infront of the Lion one has no fear, because one knows what is the truth.

So, it is no big deal of all to face other’s opinion. whatever it is just an opinion of others, we has to know what is the facts ourself. if we are solid the rest doesnt matter.

As you know from your experience in the kick boxing. The first sight to your opponent you know can you take him down or not. So, compare with those confident, stability, and mental strength, this are just illusion.

2, As some knows, I am actually using the internet to store whatever I know, another words, i am writting for the future researchers. They will evoke what I wrote and get access to it when they needed. Whatever I post will come with opposition and that is good because what ever is the truth will past the test and stay until their time. So all the opposition is a great filter helping me to filter out the information.

It is a time travel deal. so, I am not living in present but I am living in past , present, and future at the same time or living in NOW. I just hope I can save someone’s time to help them to know what has happen in our era and what is there, I hope them to find their freedom and liberation.

So, there is no problem , just do the best to help those who needs direction.

3, This is the song I love to listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibuYz2muVw0
We all some days will be passed, the world we know will fade away, we leave a beam of light for them to find the way.

Via Yik Kam’s Kuen Kuit, I found the Emei, and found what is the Emei 12 zhuang capable of. and layer and layers of content needs to be cultivate . it is no just a physical exercise for SLT, one cant attain anything deep with ordinary exercise without enter into silence …etc.
and also Life become a final fantasy once one liberate.

without the Kuen kuit, the long form SLT only some movement sequence to follow instead of a living paradigm one could enter into and make use of .

So, there is no problem.
it is all about sharing and love oneself love others… see it from there and there is no problem.

346

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1069911]Free feel to not post, I enjoy your sharing too.

Not everyone is be able to discuss. Different mind set, different attitude, different value system, different believe. So learn to ignore is the key.

I actually not doing it as most think.

A few thing I wan to share with you. since you are some one who is a “know music”.

1, lets get to 1850, after the opium war, the chinese was betray and lost via Qing’s corruption. lots of people in depress and discourage, Chinese art were humilated openly.
we call our art Wing Chun or praise for Spring. the Opera Ancestors seeing these and go for uprising. They beat the Westener army in Shang Hai and the myth of Westener army is invisible is broken and no more magic.

Think, and Think hard, without a lots of personal cultivation, how can these ancestors handle those stuffs? from totally lost to broken the myth beliving they can do it. and They have done it. Read my article on the Shai Hai connection.

Like the Christian, even standing infront of the Lion one has no fear, because one knows what is the truth.

So, it is no big deal of all to face other’s opinion. whatever it is just an opinion of others, we has to know what is the facts ourself. if we are solid the rest doesnt matter.

As you know from your experience in the kick boxing. The first sight to your opponent you know can you take him down or not. So, compare with those confident, stability, and mental strength, this are just illusion.

2, As some knows, I am actually using the internet to store whatever I know, another words, i am writting for the future researchers. They will evoke what I wrote and get access to it when they needed. Whatever I post will come with opposition and that is good because what ever is the truth will past the test and stay until their time. So all the opposition is a great filter helping me to filter out the information.

It is a time travel deal. so, I am not living in present but I am living in past , present, and future at the same time or living in NOW. I just hope I can save someone’s time to help them to know what has happen in our era and what is there, I hope them to find their freedom and liberation.

So, there is no problem , just do the best to help those who needs direction.

3, This is the song I love to listen.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibuYz2muVw0
We all some days will be passed, the world we know will fade away, we leave a beam of light for them to find the way.

Via Yik Kam’s Kuen Kuit, I found the Emei, and found what is the Emei 12 zhuang capable of. and layer and layers of content needs to be cultivate . it is no just a physical exercise for SLT, one cant attain anything deep with ordinary exercise without enter into silence …etc.
and also Life become a final fantasy once one liberate.

without the Kuen kuit, the long form SLT only some movement sequence to follow instead of a living paradigm one could enter into and make use of .

So, there is no problem.
it is all about sharing and love oneself love others… see it from there and there is no problem.[/QUOTE]

Hendrick
Found somewhere for you to further discuss your POV’s

http://www.hippy.com/index.php

GlennR

347

Hendrick
Found somewhere for you to further discuss your POV’s

http://www.hippy.com/index.php

GlennR

Wow, man, that site was groovy!

Excuse me while I light a stick of incense. It’s NYE, so put on some bellbottoms and smoke some banana peel tonight.

348

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1069313]Yes, indeed that is WCK’s Inch Jin.[/QUOTE]

been busy lately so haven’t been able to keep up as much in the thread, but just to add on to this.

my personal experience with the inch jin during my visit went like this, Hendrik did not take a forward step or do any kind of “loading” action when demonstrating the inch jin. first, i had two pillows, one under my arm and the other one held higher on the same side. from a stationary position, he placed the back palm of one hand on my shoulder and then touched the resting hand using the middle finger of the releasing hand, only about 4 inches away. so fingertip of the releasing hand is touched the palm of the hand resting at my shoulder level. then, and with very very subtle movment as a result of all the different momentum generations combined…released the jin into his hand, a very soft action that still penetrated the cushions and my body. at that distance and already in contact, hendrik was able to generate the jin that penetrated the body with only very minimal movement, no stepping or “spearing” kind of energy. as WCK is close body, one would need to be able to do this at this distance without any kind of loading to be effective.

349

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1069911]I am actually using the internet to store whatever I know, another words, i am writting for the future researchers.[/QUOTE]

(Ren Si Liu Ming) (Hu Si Liu Pi) (Yan Guo Liu Sheng) - When someone dies, his name will be remembered forever. When a tiger dies, it’s skin will decorate the wall. When wild goose fly over, the sound will remain in the sky.

I know exactly what you are talking about. May I ask “how old are you?” :slight_smile:

350

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1069960](Yan Guo Liu Sheng) - When wild goose fly over, the sound will remain in the sky.

I know exactly what you are talking about. May I ask how old you are?[/QUOTE]

50+, getting old.

35+ years of research just because I want to know what is it means in the Kuen Kuit SLT on Qi flow according to medirians..

Speak about TCMA, lots advance stuffs in WCK has lost.

My late Sifu’s ancestors was Wu Chi-Ren ( Martial title in Qing dynasty) Thus there are lots of details they preserve when they learn WCK and joining the Taiping Tien Kou uprising.

They left something for me to be able to look into what is the possibility, and it is our job to let the future generation know, once upon a time this is the fact.

A few layers of phenomenon, no magic but real, Shen, Yee, Qi, Jin, Shi, shing as real and details as gold. can be done. and there are processed. each of the layers interact with the others… that is the truth. So when one asked how deep the kung fu, what it means is how many layers one has enter and how deep each layer one has attained.

Just trying to relay, yes, once upon a time in 1800, these stuffs exist.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-2rXQbVN6o&feature=related

351

[QUOTE=anerlich;1069944]Wow, man, that site was groovy!

Excuse me while I light a stick of incense. It’s NYE, so put on some bellbottoms and smoke some banana peel tonight.[/QUOTE]

And dont forget some free luvin while youre there :wink:

352

[QUOTE=GlennR;1069978]And dont forget some free luvin while youre there ;)[/QUOTE]

At my age I’d probably end up dead … worse ways to die, I guess :smiley:

353

[QUOTE=anerlich;1069997]At my age I’d probably end up dead … worse ways to die, I guess :D[/QUOTE]

Nah, youll be alright… just use your emai snake 6 vector powers and age will be irrelevant :wink:

354

[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;1069906]Hendrik,

Getting tossed around by Mas Oyama is NOT the same thing as standing still and having someone push on you while you don’t move.

Your comparison is like saying, “Just because someone can win while playing the video game Streetfighter, they can win a REAL streefight!” There is a huge difference between the two. One is PRETEND fighting, the other is REAL fighting!

Your little game with theo was just that, A GAME!!![/QUOTE]

Hendrick is well aware of the point I was making, he was just being “Hendrick” that’s all.
The only valid way to test ANY principle or concept or technique of a fighting system is to fight with it.
Static and isolate testing MAY be used as an introductory but that is all it can ever be.
Of course by fighting I mean doing it VS an opponent that is resisting and that is NOT compliant.
It doesn’t have to be full contact at all, just enough resistence to keep it honest.
And Hendrick knows this.
You can theorize and postulate and apply it in as non-resistent a manner as you like but that doesn’t change the fact that the ONLY way to know if it will work or if it does work in a fight is to use it in a fight.
All the pushing and pulling and circle jerking is irrelevant.

A 100 meter sprinter can postulate and theorize a method of coming out of the blocks faster than any other method, BUT until that is EXACTLY what happens, it means nothing.

355

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1070012]Hendrick is well aware of the point I was making, he was just being “Hendrick” that’s all.
The only valid way to test ANY principle or concept or technique of a fighting system is to fight with it.
Static and isolate testing MAY be used as an introductory but that is all it can ever be.
Of course by fighting I mean doing it VS an opponent that is resisting and that is NOT compliant.
It doesn’t have to be full contact at all, just enough resistence to keep it honest.
And Hendrick knows this.
You can theorize and postulate and apply it in as non-resistent a manner as you like but that doesn’t change the fact that the ONLY way to know if it will work or if it does work in a fight is to use it in a fight.
All the pushing and pulling and circle jerking is irrelevant.

A 100 meter sprinter can postulate and theorize a method of coming out of the blocks faster than any other method, BUT until that is EXACTLY what happens, it means nothing.[/QUOTE]

You are almost completely correct – your only lapse was in suggesting that Hendrik already knows this. I really don’t think he does. I really think he feels that he can extrapolate from his circle jerking to fighting. I think that is what most theoretical nonfighters believe. Of course, people who do fight know better.

356

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1070012]Hendrick is well aware of the point I was making, he was just being “Hendrick” that’s all.
The only valid way to test ANY principle or concept or technique of a fighting system is to fight with it.
Static and isolate testing MAY be used as an introductory but that is all it can ever be.
Of course by fighting I mean doing it VS an opponent that is resisting and that is NOT compliant.
It doesn’t have to be full contact at all, just enough resistence to keep it honest.
And Hendrick knows this.
You can theorize and postulate and apply it in as non-resistent a manner as you like but that doesn’t change the fact that the ONLY way to know if it will work or if it does work in a fight is to use it in a fight.
All the pushing and pulling and circle jerking is irrelevant.

A 100 meter sprinter can postulate and theorize a method of coming out of the blocks faster than any other method, BUT until that is EXACTLY what happens, it means nothing.[/QUOTE]

Sanjuro,
You know me. hahaha. perhaps Kyokushin is kyokushin… reality is reality.

When I was very young, When I was in the mode of showing how good I can be. I hurt some one in a fight un intentionally.

That let me realize what is the consequence of a fight. and that let me understand to dissolve issue need not fight and also there is nothing to proof.

Testing as you suggested needs to happen among people who has a certain level of skill. As I recall, in Kyokushin, one needs to pass breaking test in order to enter the tournoment.

For me, as a basic, I will going through the Fa Jin, Hua Jin, and Peng Jin, in other words the handling of momentum and power generation basic, if one can handle all of those then Sparing make sense to check the adaptation dynamics, details handling, and the acceleration of the momentum of one’s cultivation. However, if there is a lack of basic handling ability or the level has a big gap then there is no need for further exchange. the answer is known.

IE. it is crazy for teenage me to go real with Mas’ fighter who rank the top ten in the first Kyokushin world. the gap is just too far. a single short will end that fight and no need to proof what is already could be predicted in term of adaptation dynamics, details handling, and acceleration of momentum capability.

Also, in a so called sparing, what one wants to check out it is very broad, as you know. that vary from just to know the others dynamics focus to knock out focus. The closer toward knock out focus the heavier the responsibility and consequence. Thus, it is not a simple subject.

You know what I am saying. and you are right I am just being “Hendrik” because I know most of us cannot effort to take the consequence of a serious non sport Ichi geki type of reality. and martial art is an art or sport for most. It is great to talk big on fighting but not many could effort to take a serious consequence.

In fact, in my recollection, around the 60’s Cho Family WCK in SEA which doing lots of Kong Sau, the so called fighting testing get into accident and end up a person passed away a week after.. those are real life fighting. the winner walk and the loser drop.

One just has to be honest to oneself, knowing what one is getting into, and knowing everything has a consequence.

Fighting is no longer a Macho term when I use to think "oh, i can do this, I can beat you with this, I can penetrate your that.. . "
For me, Fighting as I take it from Dao De Ching, even one win one thread it like being in a funeral. and take no pleasure in it. However, I didnt say a good MA training donot need to fight and doesnt have the ability to fight. I say good MA training is a training to face life and death but most of us cant effort to go that path or dont need to.

357

Hendrik,

No one is suggesting that a youngster or novice spar full contact with Oyama. We are saying that standing and pushing on each other demonstrates no useful martial ability.

Anyone who has trained for any length of time has accidentally injured someone and probably been accidentally injured. In my years I have been kicked in the eye so hard I thought I lost it, been kicked in the mouth so hard I thought I lost my teeth, had concussions, broken toes, my nose, hyper-extended my hip, etc. None of these made me decide not to spar any longer.

No one here is saying YOU should spar, we are saying that standing and resisting someone pushing on you is not an accurate measure of anything other than someone pushing on you while you are standing. Quieting your mind while someone is pushing on you while you are standing not moving is not an accurate measure of your ability to have a quiet mind while someone is attacking you with and axe or other life and safety endangering action.

358

I don’t agree with everything that Hendrik believes, but generally speaking, I usually come away with something from our conversations. Hendrik, operates from a traditional Asian perspective. There is a lot of value in what he says, you just have to adjust to his frame of reference at times. People who are unwilling to do that, just end up confused and mad.

359

[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;1070093]I don’t agree with everything that Hendrik believes, but generally speaking, I usually come away with something from our conversations. Hendrik, operates from a traditional Asian perspective. There is a lot of value in what he says, you just have to adjust to his frame of reference at times. People who are unwilling to do that, just end up confused and mad.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I think just about everyone is aware of that, the problem is his general condescending attitude and the fact while he will say he is open-minded and doesn’t know everything, he acts like he does know everything and every other way of doing things is wrong and his method is the only method.

So he is actually closed minded, narrow minded, condescending and hypocritical. While he isn’t totally full of Sh!t, his poor social ability and rude attitude tends to take away from the value of what he does have to say that might be worth considering.

360

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1070026]For me, as a basic, I will going through the Fa Jin, Hua Jin, and Peng Jin, in other words the handling of momentum and power generation basic, if one can handle all of those then Sparing make sense to check the adaptation dynamics, details handling, and the acceleration of the momentum of one’s cultivation. However, if there is a lack of basic handling ability or the level has a big gap then there is no need for further exchange. the answer is known.[/QUOTE]
You may forget that sparring is “fun”. When your opponent tries very hard to hurt you but he can’t, you may laugh in your dream for the next 5 days. Where else can you have fun like that? I may be 10 years older than you, but I still enjoy sparring and wrestling.

When you take the sparring/wrestling away, you take away all the fun part from TCMA.