A word to the WCK family

The older I am the more I learn to not critics others, and let it be because everyone has their own karma.

However, after a some thinking, I am posting this post. Some will not like what I am posting here. and To be real honest, I dont like to post this too because it hurts me more then anyone to post this.

But then, if I dont post this, how can I face my sifu late GM Choe Hung-choy? how can I face the ancestors of Cho family? how can I face the general public on what is Choe family WCK? how can I face Yik Kam himself?

As a traditional Chinese martial artists, I was taught to place speaking the facts as the highest priority. even if the whole world is against me, still I need to speak the facts.

At one point, some one told me I am walking alonely path and ask me to give up and to go with the political flow.

I dont because I am not walking a lonely path, but I am walking the same path with many of others in the past, present, and future. It is just a simple path of placing the facts more then one’s own benifit.

1, The following is not my sifu late GM Choe Hung-Choy’s teaching. and not accord to the Yik Kam’s SLT kuen kuit on the power development.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IdDehQyZZ8&feature=related

For anyone who like to have a taste how the movement/ posture my late sifu taught
The following could be used as a reference even though that is still using a different type of power development as I was taught by my late sifu.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGBsnNDXKI8&NR=1

2, the following is also not my sifu late GM Choe Hung-Choy’s teaching. In fact, my late sifu have never teaches CK and BJ set. This is because Yik Kam lineage has a four section long SLT set which include the content of CK and BJ of other lineages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XvSnKa3kv0&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zLI8tid33Io&feature=related

My wishes here are to please please please to be honest, do not make sifu responsible for your evolution. Take responsibility on the evolution you made for yourself. You might know WCK better or your WCK might not longer WCK. any case, I respect your evolution.

I dont like to comment on how different person practice here on Choe or Cho family or Yik Kam lineage WCK. However, I do strongly stress, there is a complete Kuen kuit and one always can use that kuen kuit as reference to see how close or far one’s practice is.

Thus, I encourage WCners from other lineages who is interested in WCK from Yik Kam and Cho family lineage based the kuen kuit as the reference.

Best Wishes to everyone.

The links are obviously not Cho Ga Wing Chun.

As usual, I am not sure I understand even one single point of your whole post, Hendrik. Why post things if they have nothing to do with your sifu’s teaching or Yik Kam wing chun? What is the point?
Or, perhaps they were taught something you were not?

If you want to show what YOUR WCK looks like, why not make the video of yourself and show them (and us) how it’s supposed to be done?

From what I see of the video on youtube, Wong Kiew Kit has posted his version of WCK.

Although Master Wong is a noted SE Asian martial artists that has written numerous books, the art he has demonstrated appears more “Hung Gar-like” than the Yik Kam WCK that was passed down from Cho Hung Choy to Hendrik Santo.

I can only surmise this is his interpretation of the art and is complete with Hung Gar stances, sounds and power generation, although the sequence of identifiable moves would seem to indicate there was some study with the late Cho Hung Choy. It is not WCK from its signatures.

Cho Hung Choy’s art is complete with a set of Yik Kam Kuen Kuit and a 4 section Siu Lien Tao set, short Muk Yan Jong set, 13 spear 6.5 pole, and butterfly knives set, and Chi Sao Loong matching set. Master Cho did he borrow any Yip Man WCK terminology of Chum Kiu and Biu Jee, which Master Wong has romanized as, “Cham Kiew” or “Phew Chee” of the “Cho(e) Family”.

Anyone who is interested in the Yik Kam’s 4 sections SLT could read the following

http://wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=13366#13366

[QUOTE=chusauli;1015777] Master Cho didnt borrow any Yip Man WCK terminology of Chum Kiu and Biu Jee,[/QUOTE]

In my recollection,

I have personally asked my late sifu on the Yip Man WCK Terminology, and my late sifu told me

1, we go with what the ancestors passed to us.
2, we do the 4 sections SLT and the WCK concept is there.

BTW:

I started this post with only one intention and that is not to muddy up what my late sifu’s taught.

As for how GM Wang my siheng like to evolve his art, that I totally accept and support. Thus, there is nothing personal here.

what about this Hendrik?

Ku choi wah lineage Siu Lin tao (not siu lien tao).
any closer to what you were taught hendrick? Just curious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMseK4NImCU

[QUOTE=bitter eater;1016072]Ku choi wah lineage Siu Lin tao (not siu lien tao).
any closer to what you were taught hendrick? Just curious.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMseK4NImCU[/QUOTE]

This is also an evolution version. it is not the 4 section Siu Lin Tao.

I already stated it wasn’t the 4 section Siu Lien Tao, but the siu lin tao taught to beginners.
what I meant to ask you was is this similar in energy, movements etc to what were taught? I didn’t ask you if it was the same form, I already know it’s not the 4 section SLT, although some of the sections are the same or similar.

IMHO, For YIk Kam lineage WCK only,

People often ask me, why am I so rigid and attach to not evolve the 4 section SLT;
As I always reply in the same tone since past decade in this forum and around the world; if one evolve it one needs to create one’s own Kuen kuit. If one can do that that is fine with me.

For me, I stick with the set and stick with the kuen kuit comes with it.

So, what is the big deal of the kuen kuit, read my post on WCK.com title the Romance of thousands years. There are process, milestone…etc one needs to attain. it is not as I simply can do what I want.

Saying the above, I am ok with anyone do anything with their art, they can get creative…etc however one must honestly answer the question of what is one’s attainment according to the Yik Kam’s teaching? and what is the purpose of the evolution.

You could see from this forum that I keep mention, white crane, Emei…etc why is that? because in order to release the power of the set, one needs to have lots of pre requisite. It cant be I call myself a master and I do anything I like and what I am doing is not accord to the ancestors’ teaching.

If it is my WCK, called it Hendrik’s SLT not Yik Kam’s SLT. if it is Yik Kam’s SLT then it better to follow the Yik Kam’s kuen kuit and requirement and mile stone and process…etc. TRaining a set is not a kid’s play or dancing, it needs to deliver result, otherwise it is a waste of time and useless moves.

Let’s face it how many since 1850 has be able to unlock the Yik Kam’s SLT set? for me, with my limited observation, only a handful. and it almost zero for past 30 years.
That is the reality. and even the set is still exist, it was perform with hung gar, CLF, or other signature and power generation.

Can we call those stuffs WCK? To be real honest, NOPE. Cant cheat and lie.

So what is WCK? IMHO, it could takes any shape however it must at every instant implementing come accept, goes return…etc. to implement that, a certain dynamic structure and power generation are needed.

IE one cant do side outward block of Karate and called it Tan Sau. or one cant do Hung Ga’s Tan sau and called it WCK tan sau, or one cant do White Crane’s water hand and called it tan sau.

Sure, they all could look a like at static or at motion. and we could argue to death on everything is tan sau too.

But, what is the definition of WCK’s Tan sau?

In my undertanding, the definition of WCK’s tan sau is not about a hand type but an implementation of Comes accept, Goes return in with a palm upward manner.

It is not a posture call tan sau or a type or energy call tan sau.

If you use the karate side outer block cause the opponent’s one hand to lock/latch the other hand while you attack him, that is tan sau. if you use the White Crane water hand to generate the rotation power to press him while you attack him, that is tan sau.

However, if you just do a karate side outer block to block that is not WCK tan sau. if you use the white crane water hand to flip and press the opponents hand, that is not WCK tan sau.

In the Yik Kam’s WCK teaching, one implement the come accept, goes return…etc with the four basic circles , Huen Kaam Tiu Taap, and also using the circles to do chi sau, that is not CLF, that is solid WCK even though it has a different way of implement the come accept, goes return…etc.

not to mention, a huen is a fusion of lap, tok, Tan…etc.

However, if one do the four basic hands and knowing not what is the purpose or what is the concept/idea/ philosophy behind it, then one is not doing WCK. and from my observation, IMHO, some is actually doing CLF or Hung Ga because knowing or not the way the carry out their act is implementing CLF or Hung Ga idea and philosophy. Not to mention, the power generation is totally different.

Now, why is WCK called the Female art or soft art? that is simply because it uses the philosophy of comes accept, goes return…etc. While comes accept, goes return, there is no block, it is always flow, it is a continuous of pull, push, side slide, entering. there is no discrete move but one moves lead to other move. So it looks sticky, it looks soft, it looks continuous. So, as soon as one implement the philosophy, the “female” or "soft’ signature surface. However, if one implement the CLF or Hung ga philosophy even if one does the same move, it doesnt look right.
Not to mention, if one practice the 4 section SLT without both arms both in action and support each others, ofcorse it is not going to be WCK but other style.

These stuffs are what one suppose to learn when practicing the second section of the SLT.

So, why is so many doesnt know these?

well, simply because most have never really learn the art or learn the art deep enough.

one might memorize the posture but have not learn what is it. and also because not every one will like to reveal what is it. as in the old time, it is said, one can teach the set but never the application, one can teach the application but never what the philosophy/concept behind it, unless one is the true indoor student.

I reveal this here because I would like this art to be preserved and also with today’s modern world, one needs to be properly identify one’s art and perfecting one’s own lineage art, cant argue with other WCK lineage that we do WCK while infact we are doing other style such as CLF or Hung gar. even worst copying other WCK lineage’s signature and argue one has that too. that is just a mess. IMHO.

So, doesnt the Yik Kam SLT still exist? sure, as soon as majority of the set is still exist, the Kuen kuit is still exist, even if no one in this generation could unlock the set, the whole system is freeze and can be evoked.

and why do you think I keep write those post in WCK.Com on the story of SLT? isnt it signature of some one’s journey. Why I keep posting the Emei the White crane connection…etc. isnt it trying to preserve as much reference information for the future generation who like to investigate into it?

I have reveal I determine to put the keys information in the time capsure with the lyrics of the following song long time ago but you either not pay attention or would not believe. and some even go as far as trying to debunk the keys without knowing if they debunk the keys they destroy their own WCK. IE. you debunk the first 5 stanzas of Yik Kam SLT kuen kuit, that guarantee one lock oneself out of the door of Yik Kam’s WCK. and that is deadly serious but some have never gone that far to realize that. it is about the whole system could vanished over night with an ego ignorance act.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov3RXjisKgM&feature=related

and finally, you dont have to take my words, find your own path is the best. but if you think what I post make sense, try it and see for yourself what is the result. I am interested in find out what is it about the set but I am not interested in how superior this art could hurt others. That is because I love art and never like to and never intended to lead other to commit killing or hurting karma.

I cautious you here, Those who kill will be kill. Those who hurt other will be hurt. thus, it is not worth to go that macho and violent path and have a bad negative karma of fighting and killing.

Good question.

Could you please shared who are you and who do you study WCK from? and Which lineage?

I already stated it wasn’t the 4 section Siu Lien Tao, but the siu lin tao taught to beginners.

For me,
you have answered your own question above.

BTW: The Yik Kam siu Lien Tao’s Lien means training. what is the Lin of siu lin tao means?

So some ask me what is it.

Well, I have reveal it long time ago. see for yourself what i show in the youtube and the kuen kuit and other writing. see how it is link and how it is in writing and in practice of my Yik Kam SLT. There is no secret but only required one’s patient and observation to investigate what it is.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKWVOc2HOig
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3ntCGIoMvM&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKASkDfmV9g&feature=related

http://wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1267
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=997258&postcount=160
http://kungfumagazine.com/forum/showpost.php?p=993125&postcount=38

I meant to type Siu Lim tao - small/little idea. As opposed to Siu Lien tao - small training.

How have I answered my own question? I don’t understand what you mean.
I was looking for a simple yes or no to my original question-
is the SLT in the video similar in energy or movements to the slt you were taught?

[QUOTE=bitter eater;1016151]I don’t understand what you mean.[/QUOTE]
don’t worry, nobody here does; you’ll get used to it…(and now he’s going to send me some love, I can just feel it…);

[QUOTE=bitter eater;1016143]I meant to type Siu Lim tao - small/little idea. As opposed to Siu Lien tao - small training.[/QUOTE]

Ok. Understood.

it is the Lim or Niem as how GM Ip Man’s signature on his lineage to call his first set.

[QUOTE=bitter eater;1016151]How have I answered my own question? I don’t understand what you mean.
I was looking for a simple yes or no to my original question-
is the SLT in the video similar in energy or movements to the slt you were taught?[/QUOTE]

Here is my view, see if it suit you.

As you said,

I already stated it wasn’t the 4 section Siu Lien Tao, but the siu lin tao taught to beginners.

and,

it is a fact according to the kuen kuit that the 4 section SLT is not for beginner, beginner doesnt handle the type of details in power generation or energy or movement : such as sink Qi, and flow with medirians… force vectors…short inch jin…etc.

Is this answer your questions?

If you like to know more,
perhaps it is better to ask the person who evolve or create this set to explain his motivation behind it, what he expects one could learn from this set, and what is the different between this set compare with the 4 section SLT.

BTW:

Would you kindly share your name, your lineage, how long you have train, and who is your sifu? So we know who you are and your level depth needed in this discussion.

[QUOTE=taai gihk yahn;1016198]don’t worry, nobody here does; you’ll get used to it…(and now he’s going to send me some love, I can just feel it…);[/QUOTE]

You are right, I am sending you more love with a message

“It you learn to shut up on things you are clueless. others will take you to be more wiser. I hope you are smart enough to not make youself look like an idiot fool for your own good.”

the best way to show the truth is to do just that.. show it. Otherwise it’s a war of words. Take Yip Man vids for example, hard to argue with them as a record of a specific place and time.

Hendrik In your stance do you sink to the dan tein or do you sink to earth?