my visit with hendrik

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1069302]The conversation is WCK inch jin , very specific and well define in WCK, let’s getting not off track.[/QUOTE]

The “(Cun Jin) - inch Jin” is a general TCMA concept. It doesn’t belong to any TCMA system. I don’t think we should have “style boundary” in mind when we discuss TCMA in general.

The moment that you start to talk about “Hua Jin”, you already talk about something more than just the Win Chun style.

I thought you are the person who brought the Er Mei principle into Win Chun system. IMO, it’s a good thing and I respect you for that. Cross training and evolution is always a good thing. I assume you will be the last person on earth who may still have “style boundary” in mind. :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1069300]Beside playing word game what do you know?

Get real, you are not a WCner, dont practice WCK, and know nothing on WCK inch jin. hahaha[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1069302]The conversation is WCK inch jin , very specific and well define in WCK, let’s getting not off track.[/QUOTE]

Right Hendrik, everyone plays word games, but you!!!

All you do is play word games. WCK is special in your eyes, there is nothing like it and no one knows anything about it but you and the special chosen few. Your special one inch WCK jin is nothing special. It is simple and anyone can learn it and it won’t make you invincible. It is a simple trick of body control. Get over your grandiose concepts of your special WCK. It is not special and you are not special. It is as ordinary and you are as ordinary as everyone else.

I know it is hard to accept, but it is the truth and the truth will set you free! Right now you are trapped within your false image of yourself and WCK, once you accept your ordinariness and the ordinariness of your WCK you can get back to a normal life.

The “(Cun Jin) - inch Jin” is a general TCMA concept. It doesn’t belong to any TCMA system. I don’t think we should have “style boundary” in mind when we discuss TCMA in general.

One needs to be very specific. Inch Jin in different style of TCMA means different thing.

The moment that you start to talk about “Hua Jin”, you already talk about something more than just the Win Chun style.

Nope. Wing Chun has Hua Jin technology. Hua Jin exist in different styles.

I thought you are the person who brought the Er Mei principle into Win Chun.

Nope, not my job. Wing Chun was created with Er Mei technology by the creator.

IMO, it’s a good thing. I assume you will be the last person on earth who may have “style boundary” in mind. :slight_smile:

I have no style boundary, I myself practice a variety of TCMA internal art, however I am very specific in different style’s technics/signature. Those doesnt mix, it got to be clear.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1069305]Those doesnt mix, it got to be clear.[/QUOTE]

How can we not mix our salad, potato, fish, dessert in our stomach? It’s our knowledge and skill, we should have freedom to mix it anyway that we like. We should be the master and not the slave of our styles.

Just fast glance at this thread . I do not know about others but stepping and pulling one side to launch other side is not how we do what is being called inch jin

Hand flat on target no stepping no rotation or pulling one shoulder to propel other type of momentum. Ours is demonstrated while standing YGKM Hand flat on target. Then either send target of if serious drop target to ground stance never leaves no twisting of waist or shoulders. No rotation or momentum usage. You can do those things of course but that is something else.

All kind of words but not answering the question.

Just say you dont know WCK and WCK’s inch jin. is that difficult?
I guess perhaps it is difficult for the person who likes to pretend know it all to tell the truth.

[QUOTE=Scott R. Brown;1069304]Right Hendrik, everyone plays word games, but you!!!

All you do is play word games. WCK is special in your eyes, there is nothing like it and no one knows anything about it but you and the special chosen few. Your special one inch WCK jin is nothing special. It is simple and anyone can learn it and it won’t make you invincible. It is a simple trick of body control. Get over your grandiose concepts of your special WCK. It is not special and you are not special. It is as ordinary and you are as ordinary as everyone else.

I know it is hard to accept, but it is the truth and the truth will set you free! Right now you are trapped within your false image of yourself and WCK, once you accept your ordinariness and the ordinariness of your WCK you can get back to a normal life.[/QUOTE]

Another thread gone south.

joy chaudhuri

[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1069306]How can we not mix our salad, potato, fish, dessert in our stomach? It’s our knowledge and skill, we should have freedom to mix it anyway that we like. We should be the master and not the slave of our styles.[/QUOTE]

Honest word, the problem is if one doesnt even be able to handle the very basic, what to mix?

[QUOTE=horserider;1069309]Just fast glance at this thread . I do not know about others but stepping and pulling one side to launch other side is not how we do what is being called inch jin

Hand flat on target no stepping no rotation or pulling one shoulder to propel other type of momentum.

Ours is demonstrated while standing YGKM Hand flat on target. Then either send target of if serious drop target to ground stance never leaves no twisting of waist or shoulders. No rotation or momentum usage.

You can do those things of course but that is something else.[/QUOTE]

Yes, indeed that is WCK’s Inch Jin.

Some likes to talk big here. Some likes to critics of the Chinese way of training. Some doesnt like to hear Baisi. …

For me, these people must have never seen the top quality Advance TCMA player.
If things are so simple, then there will be tons of advance TCMA players.

Started from the very basic,
even relax or Loose up has various type, if one is not carefull, one get into a wrong state and will not attained what is suppose to. Not to mention when things get more and more advance. There is no room for fuzzy or confusion…

Even with a good sifu or lots of good sifus’ support, one still has to spend lots of time testing and fine tuning one’s practice…

That easy? No. like a musician lots of practice, fine tune, before one could have good handling.

Without a sifu to coach one, a good process. Training is almost impossible and hopeless. or cant progress too far. that is a reality.

The other day some ask me SLT stuffs and expect me to tell him the short cut. I told him I did Zhang Zhong for almost two hours a days these days, do you think I will do that if there is short cut?

It is naive to think relax or loose up will do everything. Six directional force vectors concept in the ancient Taiji is called Supporting eight direction and a single feather cannot land. Those are advance level stuffs after one can do proper loose up. layer and layers of details and handling… not that simple at all. But then when one has master it, it is just nature.
Similar to an excellent singer singing is nature, but then how much one has to go through before one reach that nature?

Speak about the most basic Wing Chun YJKYM. everyone think one needs to tilt the tail bone…etc. but does one really know the significant and the result target? Just to be direct, most done it wrong and violating the human body nature, thus end up pulling a reverse gear and get one stuck. See, every part of the body from the chest, back, head, waist, hip… has a guide line to proper alignment and handling. without get into those stuffs. one is just standing there like a piece of dead wood. perhaps that could give a good training to tense up the muscle, however, travelling internal is certainly not possible. to have the YJKYM to produce the full potential, the reference of silence, breathing, qi flow, physical handling needs to be known. and only then, one could keep track of one’s state with those references points.

I post this post because I do feel there is too many “talking experts”, that is going to contribute to only confusion.

finally,
Emei Snake engine, very simple, said it in one sentence is " every joints in the body must move in circular path and supporting/echoing each others all together." What secret? NONE.

but even one knows this can one do it? Nope, without all those basic conditioning and training, one still will not be able to even picture it not to mention do it.

I always open up and share to the public, that is because I am concern the art will be gone if not practice. However, I dont like that figthing fighting stuffs. Those are just bad karma generation and cause one even more trouble. I gone through it and I know. Fighting is a macho term but how much the price one needs to pay for that useless macho term? Too much. So, get the advance kung fu under one’s belt but dont need those extra macho term and bad karma.

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1069315]Some likes to talk big here. Some likes to critics of the Chinese way of training. Some doesnt like to hear Baisi. …

For me, these people must have never seen the top quality Advance TCMA player.
If things are so simple, then there will be tons of advance TCMA players.

Started from the very basic,
even relax or Loose up has various type, if one is not carefull, one get into a wrong state and will not attained what is suppose to. Not to mention when things get more and more advance. There is no room for fuzzy or confusion…

Even with a good sifu or lots of good sifus’ support, one still has to spend lots of time testing and fine tuning one’s practice…

That easy? No. like a musician lots of practice, fine tune, before one could have good handling.

Without a sifu to coach one, a good process. Training is almost impossible and hopeless. or cant progress too far. that is a reality.

The other day some ask me SLT stuffs and expect me to tell him the short cut. I told him I did Zhang Zhong for almost two hours a days these days, do you think I will do that if there is short cut?

It is naive to think relax or loose up will do everything. Six directional force vectors concept in the ancient Taiji is called Supporting eight direction and a single feather cannot land. Those are advance level stuffs after one can do proper loose up. layer and layers of details and handling… not that simple at all. But then when one has master it, it is just nature.
Similar to an excellent singer singing is nature, but then how much one has to go through before one reach that nature?

Speak about the most basic Wing Chun YJKYM. everyone think one needs to tilt the tail bone…etc. but does one really know the significant and the result target? Just to be direct, most done it wrong and violating the human body nature, thus end up pulling a reverse gear and get one stuck. See, every part of the body from the chest, back, head, waist, hip… has a guide line to proper alignment and handling. without get into those stuffs. one is just standing there like a piece of dead wood. perhaps that could give a good training to tense up the muscle, however, travelling internal is certainly not possible. to have the YJKYM to produce the full potential, the reference of silence, breathing, qi flow, physical handling needs to be known. and only then, one could keep track of one’s state with those references points.

I post this post because I do feel there is too many “talking experts”, that is going to contribute to only confusion.

finally,
Emei Snake engine, very simple, said it in one sentence is " every joints in the body must move in circular path and supporting/echoing each others all together." What secret? NONE.

but even one knows this can one do it? Nope, without all those basic conditioning and training, one still will not be able to even picture it not to mention do it.

I always open up and share to the public, that is because I am concern the art will be gone if not practice. However, I dont like that figthing fighting stuffs. Those are just bad karma generation and cause one even more trouble. I gone through it and I know. Fighting is a macho term but how much the price one needs to pay for that useless macho term? Too much. So, get the advance kung fu under one’s belt but dont need those extra macho term and bad karma.[/QUOTE]

So question for you here… if i dont learn any of the above are you saying i cant reach a high level of WC???
Looking forawrd to your reply
GlennR

And one more question… are you saying i have to “baisai” to an asian WC instructor??

Regards
GlennR

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1069310]All kind of words but not answering the question.

Just say you dont know WCK and WCK’s inch jin. is that difficult?
I guess perhaps it is difficult for the person who likes to pretend know it all to tell the truth.[/QUOTE]

Your version of inch jin is a parlor trick. It cannot be used in a dynamic situation. It has no benefit in the real world other than to mesmerize the naïve and make people like you feel important. Any real fighter, such as a Muay Thai fighter, a boxer, or a MMA with less than a year of training will make mince meat out of you TODAY, RIGHT NOW, even with all your years of internal training.

If you want to make the argument that it is not for fighting, but demonstrates internal/personal development, you just shot that one down today, as you have done many times in past conversations, by demonstrating how fragile your equanimity is when you are challenged by someone willing to address your ignorance.

You throw temper-tantrums, act like a two year old and become demeaning to others when you are repeatedly challenged. This behavior does NOT demonstrate equanimity and maturity, something internal training is presumably meant to develop. It is, however, a demonstration of how all your efforts have taught you nothing, and reveals to others your true character.

You cannot defend your teachings, your art, or your behavior with any meaningful argument. You are a fraud, and what you teach is useless as a martial art and as a form of internal cultivation, at least as demonstrated by you.

Your magic one inch jin, can be performed by any charlatan with practice and I can teach anyone how to defeat it in a very short period of time and not just me, but anyone in on the trick of it can teach someone else to do it. I wouldn’t be surprised it Penn and Teller already have demonstrated the fraud behind your little inch jin! Even non-martial artists can learn how to defeat it with ease.

If it is not based upon bio-mechanics then it must work under any condition if it is truly internal power, but it cannot. That means it should be immaterial when, where and how it is used on another persons body. It should be immaterial how they are standing and how you are standing. It should be immaterial how the hand is held and even how far away you are from the opponent. It should be just as effective against a 350# person as a 100# person. You cannot demonstrate its effectiveness under any of these circumstances.

If you do not realize any of this you are an idiot, if you do realize all of this you are charlatan and a fraud.

I understand you have years of emotional investment in your practice. It is unfortunate someone with a real brain hadnt taught you the foolishness of your path when you were younger. You wouldnt have had to waste all these years training for nothing.

If at least if you had learned some equanimity from all your efforts it might have been worth the mistake. But you appear to have even less maturity than even some of the youngest members here.

I truly feel sorry for you!:o

[QUOTE=horserider;1069309]Just fast glance at this thread . I do not know about others but stepping and pulling one side to launch other side is not how we do what is being called inch jin

Hand flat on target no stepping no rotation or pulling one shoulder to propel other type of momentum. Ours is demonstrated while standing YGKM Hand flat on target. Then either send target of if serious drop target to ground stance never leaves no twisting of waist or shoulders. No rotation or momentum usage. You can do those things of course but that is something else.[/QUOTE]

Right! You can make someone fall down without moving in anyway. In your dreams! Good luck with that!

Read everything I just wrote to Hendrik and it goes for you too! Except for the equanimity part, that has yet to be tested appropriately!:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1069311]Another thread gone south.

joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]

It was south to start with!

[QUOTE=GlennR;1069318]So question for you here… if i dont learn any of the above are you saying i cant reach a high level of WC???
Looking forawrd to your reply
GlennR[/QUOTE]

Glenn, you can certainly reach a high level without the above, if you have a process and technology to do it. it’s simple, the sifu is there to coach and guide the student in the process to achieve the end result. that’s the transmission that takes place, it follows a process, step by step, building on top of each layer. can’t do inch jin if your body is not conditioned to do so for example. also, even if one knows the above, they may not reach a high level either. as I have heard, a student who has been shown the door is a million miles away from mastery, and one who doesn’t know the door is even further.

popcorn man

[QUOTE=GlennR;1069319]And one more question… are you saying i have to “baisai” to an asian WC instructor??

Regards
GlennR[/QUOTE]

nobody’s said anything about that. the fact is, there is a difference in cultural view. we know WCK is a chinese martial art, so that cultural perspective and ideas are what drove its design and development through the years. can’t just take all that and brute force it into what we all think is right based on our individual experiences growing up in the modern age. the ancestors had very specific definitions and meanings back then, so what’s the point of trying to twist it into something we think is more correct? why not just follow what they said instead?

[QUOTE=theo;1069326]Glenn, you can certainly reach a high level without the above, if you have a process and technology to do it. it’s simple, the sifu is there to coach and guide the student in the process to achieve the end result. that’s the transmission that takes place, it follows a process, step by step, building on top of each layer. can’t do inch jin if your body is not conditioned to do so for example. also, even if one knows the above, they may not reach a high level either. as I have heard, a student who has been shown the door is a million miles away from mastery, and one who doesn’t know the door is even further.[/QUOTE]

No offense Theo.. but your going down the same path here as Hendrick. Slightly patronising with a “so i have heard” from another source at the end to give it some meat.
Simple question… will Hendricks “path of enlightenment” make me a better WC (notice i said WC) fighter

Glenn

[QUOTE=theo;1069328]nobody’s said anything about that. the fact is, there is a difference in cultural view. we know WCK is a chinese martial art, so that cultural perspective and ideas are what drove its design and development through the years. can’t just take all that and brute force it into what we all think is right based on our individual experiences growing up in the modern age. the ancestors had very specific definitions and meanings back then, so what’s the point of trying to twist it into something we think is more correct? why not just follow what they said instead?[/QUOTE]

theo,

The problem with that kind of thinking is that it presumes that the “ancients” knew better than we do today. That has not been established. In fact history has taught us that the ancients, didn’t know much about anything we know today. If you recall your Chinese history, the ancient Taoists used to give The Yellow Emperor mercury pills that were designed to prolong his life and perhaps give him eternal life. All they did was hasten his death and probably make it very painful.

The error in your thinking is the “presumption” that they knew more than we do today. They didn’t!

There is an old Japanese anecdote:

Once upon a time two young Samurai decided to set out to travel around testing their skills and seeking knowledgeable teachers. They agreed to meet at a certain spot in 10 years time to compare their adventures and share with each other what they had learned.

When the time came, the two met and began conversing about their adventures and the things they had learned. One of the Samurai talked about how he had met a teacher whom he had spent the past 10 years with, and through diligent study over that time, he had acquired the ability to jump across the canal they were strolling beside. He then proceeded to demonstrate his ability to his friend.

Not impressed, his friend approached a nearby ferryman and for a few pennies was taken across the canal.

The point being that for a few pennies the one Samurai could accomplish the same feat his friend has spent 10 years of study to accomplish, that is, cross a canal.

There are better things to spend your time on in life than learning impractical and useless skills. Aside from the fact it may simply just be enjoyable, if you think you are going to learn something special, mysterious and rare and gain special abilities, you will be sadly mistaken.