Just a quick question what do you think that entering a competition will give you in benefits that sparring against other stylists might not give you?
I have heard all about the intensity and that so on.
IMO, both sparring and competitions are controlled environments where your opponents is NOT trying to kill or maim you.
Difference I see is that in a competition you got more viewers than during a sparring session and that the goal is to win a prize or money.
Not trying to turn you away from competing if that is where your interests lie, just can’t see much added benefit over a good “open mat” sparring session.
Originally posted by lkfmdc Until 1998, I was a full time school teacher.
Cool, what subject?
What people call san shou now was our daily practice for years. We just called it sparring. It is nothing new. We did rounds with contact, no points(or closing costs j/k). I don’t subscribe to the "deadly’ technique thing either. People are just trying to explain something that have no real answer for. Thats why you get all the speculators ranting about technique or rules or whatnot.
But, To site the 4 or 5 people that fought 10 years ago in UFC is no basis for judgment of the matter either. If you want to see were all the CMAers went, look over your shoulder, they went to do san shou. Thats what the CMA ers gear themselves up for.
IMNSHO, the thing thats wrong with fighters coming out of the kung fu(including SS) is not that certain attacks are not allowed, its the decline in the defensive tactics you were supposedly learning in your kung fu class’. Guard, perimeter control, centerline awareness, deflection and counterattack. Its woefully lacking.
mr cow, thank u for ur question. i think the overall quality of fighters would be different b/c in order to voluntarily place urself in such a dangerous situation, u must be either very crazy, or hopefully skilled enough to compete @ that level. most people in local open sparrin competitions don’t train sparrin properly or enough. they might spar every once in a while, or every night for that matter. but i don’t think that most people have even trained their basics properly enough and went straight into free sparrin w/o proper direction. therefore, u get a bunch of people w/ diarrhea of the mouth and constipation of the fist(ie. can’t fight their way out of a wet paper bag!) so when u get a bunch of these poorly trained people together and call it a competition, the one who sux the least get’s a pretty trophy and brags about it. after this “champion” wins enough of these competitions for years and learns enough forms, he can get a pretty sash and a certificate and open a new mcdojo up the street where he can teach more people to spar; it pretty much becomes a “blind leadin the blind” situation from then on.(man, that sounds kinda harsh, but honesty is my forte).
not everyone wants to learn kung fu to fight, and that’s fine as long as its acknowledged honestly. where i have a problem is when people get these big ego’s, run their mouth about how bad@$$ they r, but cash the checks w/ their @$$ that their mouth writes. now anyone can get took, includin myself. and if i don’t think i’m up to a certain level, then i won’t go there. but i’ve learned to have the courage to try things in life if i’m afforded the opportunity and have the will to do so. i never regret what i do, i regret what i don’t do.(okay, i’m through ventin)
so conclusively, i think next to humility and patience, someone who claims to train seriously should train honestly. u can only lie to urself for so long and that shakes ur confidence. if u train ur ‘gong li’ to be very strong, then that can take u through anything in the martial arts. gung fu is goin to be a constant cyle of struggle then progress. this is the only way u can make it ur own. but if u don’t train honestly and gain experience, then how will u ever really be able to assess ur abilities?
Not trying to turn you away from competing if that is where your interests lie, just can’t see much added benefit over a good “open mat” sparring session.
The added benefit is that the person across from you has no interest in your well-being. Sure, they’ll follow the rules or get disqualified, but it’s not a “friendly” session. Each person is doing everything they can to win. Speaking as a competitor who has attended many, many competitions and many open mats, I can assure you the mindset is completely different–both on the giving and receiving end
Agreed that you have to know your own limitations and be honest to yourself about them.
OTOH, if you enter you will only beat the other competitors may they be good or not.
Funny thing with competitions often the best people never enter them.
Why, I know ladies that would put to shame entrants in the Miss world, why don’t they enter? Because they got nothing to proove to themselves or anybody else.
I know that my Sifu does not compete, but some of his students do.
This is not a slant on Competitors, competition can one give the drive to excel that might be missing if they never competed.
What people call san shou now was our daily practice for years. We just called it sparring. It is nothing new. We did rounds with contact, no points(or closing costs j/k). I don’t subscribe to the "deadly’ technique thing either. People are just trying to explain something that have no real answer for. Thats why you get all the speculators ranting about technique or rules or whatnot.
But, To site the 4 or 5 people that fought 10 years ago in UFC is no basis for judgment of the matter either. If you want to see were all the CMAers went, look over your shoulder, they went to do san shou. Thats what the CMA ers gear themselves up for.
IMNSHO, the thing thats wrong with fighters coming out of the kung fu(including SS) is not that certain attacks are not allowed, its the decline in the defensive tactics you were supposedly learning in your kung fu class’. Guard, perimeter control, centerline awareness, deflection and counterattack. Its woefully lacking. [/B]
I was a professor of modern Chinese history and an associate lecturer in the political science department in the field of international relations. One reason my family wanted me to stop fighting was they had invested so much money in my education they worried about Drain Bamage…
Kung Fu has become a joke because people like those on this board have lost all connection with REALITY. Who exactly is going to be more prepared for a fight, a guy who TALKS about “deadly” techniques or someone who has fought FULL CONTACT…
It isn’t a hard answer and yet 99% here are going to rattle off the old joke… and it’s getting tired real fast
Not trying to turn you away from competing if that is where your interests lie, just can’t see much added benefit over a good “open mat” sparring session.
read my “WHY COMPETITION” thread… good stuff in there… altho i may be a lil biased… :rolleyes:
As a matter of perspective, you must realize that many TMA schools have gone the way of family oriented training. Lets face it, hardcore fighter schools don’t have huge amounts of people in them. And if there is a hardcore school that does have a lot of students, it has then succeeded in tapping the majority, if not the entirety, of the avaiable local market. Family oriented schools are not interested in producing someone to face Royce. They are happy if the student can get away from crack head bob. As far as the kids go, mommy jane is more pleased with little timmy if he blocks but DOESN’T hit back if he doesn’t need to.
Blame it on the money.
I disagree Abel. Well, that’s the way it is, but not the way it needs to be. Look at it this way, the Boxing gyms get people, the Muay Thai gyms get peopple, the Judo gyms get people, the BJJ gyms get people, but the CMA fighting schools tend to scare people off.
Could it be that we’re attracting the wrong types in the first place? Could it be that the fighters all think CMA is nothing but dim mak and chi balls and not look at CMA in the first place? Isn’t it worth changing those perceptions so that real CMA does not die in the near future?
I can’t say I agree with everyone lkfmdc says, but he’s trying to change the perceptions of CMA so that it is again known as a fighters art. I’ll back him 100 % on that.
“Well, that’s the way it is, but not the way it needs to be.”
True, but thats the way it is.
Depending on the area, you might get a few hardcore schools with large amounts of people. But even in those schools not everyone is a superstar or even good for that matter.
Perspective is a funny thing, there are really no absolutes. I have met and trained with people from both sides of the spectrum from many arts. Some good, some bad, either way its their teachers and their training time I compliment or critique, not their styles.
Originally posted by MasterKiller You would think a man with lkfmdc’s grooming and intellect would be able to discuss something without resorting to calling someone a fairie, huh?
You would think.
The thing is I agree that CMA should be considered a fighter’s art even if you don’t train to fight in the competitive world. lkfmc’s intentions may be good, but not everyone is able to train to fight competitvely. Some aren’t willing to give up lucrative jobs for the training comitment involved. Some aren’t talented or physically gifted enough. Should the martial arts exclude them? Should they not be allowed to train for the off chance that they are mugged and forced to defend themselves? Are they less of a martial artist? I don’t think so.
I don’t think he is saying “Unless you are competitive in a world class San Da tournament you are not a good martial artist”
Train to fight… simple as that. There are many people who train in combat sports who don’t compete in combat sports outside of their school… I’m sure that is the case at his school also.
Following along with your post… should someone who can’t spend their life training only get half-assed training?
:rolleyes: