[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1254706]The TCMA tries to use health, self-cultivation, inner peace, and performance as excuse to avoid combat.
I have never heard any boxer or wrestler ever talk about “self-cultivation”. Why?[/QUOTE]
“self cultivation” and Taoist philosophy has been around a long time in Chinese martial art…
by now, most evidence tells us the “boxers” in the Boxer Rebellion were more religious sect than real martial artists, martial arts was just their “con”
But this “con” grew and grew and grew… big question is WHY?
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1254707]“self cultivation” and Taoist philosophy has been around a long time in Chinese martial art…
by now, most evidence tells us the “boxers” in the Boxer Rebellion were more religious sect than real martial artists, martial arts was just their “con”
But this “con” grew and grew and grew… big question is WHY?[/QUOTE]
“Fighting used to be “the norm”… but not any more”
`This is why the out look is not good.TCMA has lost the culture of fighting.
We have all the drills,the skills,the conditioning,the forms with all the techniques inside them,encyclopedias worth of power generation theory and combat strategy,yet something falls short putting it all together.
Not enough time is spent hitting and getting hit. I my TCMA training I think I must have crescent kicked my own hand thousands of times more than ever drilling it on a person.
[QUOTE=yeshe;1254713]“Fighting used to be “the norm”… but not any more”
`This is why the out look is not good.TCMA has lost the culture of fighting.
We have all the drills,the skills,the conditioning,the forms with all the techniques inside them,encyclopedias worth of power generation theory and combat strategy,yet something falls short putting it all together.
Not enough time is spent hitting and getting hit. I my TCMA training I think I must have crescent kicked my own hand thousands of times more than ever drilling it on a person.[/QUOTE]
Well, along same lines, here is my thinking also on this
When I trained with CTS, I literally trained with him 6 days a week, about 5 to 6 hours with him… if 35% of what we did was not fighting or conditioning related I still had 65% of my time for those two things (I do however think I am being GEREROUS with 35%, we have too much clap trap in CMA)
Today how many people do and hour class or an hour and 15 min classes only two times a week???
But I also think it is the “culture”.. an hour class in many CMA places these days is not the harsh training of the past
I wish one of your guys had children so I could kick them in the fucking head or stomp on they testicles so you could feel my pain, cause thats the pain I have, wakin up everyday
Here’s an interview with Chan Wai Man, the guy in the fight clip.
He talks about his Triad days and the difference between old school ways and modern gangsters. He also talks about philosophy, changing perspectives, and what’s important in life.
[QUOTE=yeshe;1254713]“Fighting used to be “the norm”… but not any more”
`This is why the out look is not good.TCMA has lost the culture of fighting.
We have all the drills,the skills,the conditioning,the forms with all the techniques inside them,encyclopedias worth of power generation theory and combat strategy,yet something falls short putting it all together.
Not enough time is spent hitting and getting hit. I my TCMA training I think I must have crescent kicked my own hand thousands of times more than ever drilling it on a person.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1254716]Today how many people do and hour class or an hour and 15 min classes only two times a week???
But I also think it is the “culture”.. an hour class in many CMA places these days is not the harsh training of the past.[/QUOTE]
It’s what people make it to be.
You guys are talking about those that took the T out of TCMA.
Nothing wrong with TCMA.
The stuff that some people do nowadays, that might be a different story.
[QUOTE=yeshe;1254713]“Fighting used to be “the norm”… but not any more”
`This is why the out look is not good.TCMA has lost the culture of fighting.
We have all the drills,the skills,the conditioning,the forms with all the techniques inside them,encyclopedias worth of power generation theory and combat strategy,yet something falls short putting it all together.
Not enough time is spent hitting and getting hit. I my TCMA training I think I must have crescent kicked my own hand thousands of times more than ever drilling it on a person.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1254707]“self cultivation” and Taoist philosophy has been around a long time in Chinese martial art…
by now, most evidence tells us the “boxers” in the Boxer Rebellion were more religious sect than real martial artists, martial arts was just their “con”
But this “con” grew and grew and grew… big question is WHY?[/QUOTE]
Perhaps you or bawang might have more insight into this, but I’ve always felt the turn to “spirituality” was similar to other cultures that felt threatened but had no means to defend themselves. Within a century, China went from being the most powerful country in the world and a regional hegemony to a country being cut up by foreign powers. China moved on but many aspects Chinese culture did not. The mysteries of Daoist alchemy mirror that of “traditional” gongfu…step-by-step up a ladder where you can only see a few rungs above you, but you’ve been promised heaven at the top. It’s a system that easily abused.
Chan wai man doesn’t look too polished in that fight. Not that it mattered.
David, who would you bet on:
boxer with only a little instruction but spars often with others
boxer with a lot of instruction but rarely spars
To me shadowboxing = forms. I’m sure you’ve seen lots of guys that have decent form while shadowboxing and doing 4/6/8 counts etc, but look terrible when they are faced with an actual opponent.
[QUOTE=BigPandaBear;1254763]If the epitome of CMA is ending up looking like a kickboxer, why don’t we just take kickboxing to begin with?[/QUOTE]
i think the bigger question is if kung fu usd to look like kick boxing (basic kicks, punches, clinch work trips and throws) what made it move towards looking like dancing…
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1254706]The TCMA tries to use health, self-cultivation, inner peace, and performance as excuse to avoid combat.
I have never heard any boxer or wrestler ever talk about “self-cultivation”. Why?[/QUOTE]
TCMA has synthesized self cultivation, chan(zen)-innerpeace and health within it’s martial arts. It is unique in that sense. I don’t think it’s an excuse, it is a part of many systems.
it’s not an excuse to “avoid” combat. An excuse to avoid combat is “no, I’m not into fighting” when someone asks you to fight. lol.
Boxer self cultivate through their art form. Their health, their well being and their ability to step up and win is dependent upon their self discipline. Each feeds the other.
You would be hard pressed to find a decent school that doesn’t recognize that martial arts require self discipline, sacrifice etc and all of that is self cultivation.
All physical discipline that requires practice and time spent IS self cultivating and movement towards inner peace. IMNSHO.
[QUOTE=JamesC;1254757]
Chan wai man doesn’t look too polished in that fight
[/QUOTE]
Could he be better? YES
BUT, at least he was fighting…
This was the starting point for me, we were taught fighting and we were fighting, but we wanted to be better (well I wanted to be better, not all my class mates obviously)…
Back in the “old days” though, at least there was fighting…
In Taiwan, at Tang Shou Tao for example, they had all the Chi Kung, the Taoist philosophy, the forms, etc, but they also fought full contact
But the community didn’t move forward from that point, it moved BACKWARD
Gene once suggested that national forms competitions and the influence of modern wushu started the trend, but we could discuss it even more
