A man spent his entire life looking for a great sage. upon finding him at his home the sage calls the man by name and asked him to come in, the said: “How is it that you know who i am”
to which the sage replied: “how is it that you do not”
oops!
imeant to say the man said.
Food for thought
Go to youtube ( no doubt the biggest collection of online videos of all types).
Key in boxing and what do you get? what are the top videos that show up and what is being done?
Do the same for MMA, or Judo or BJJ or kyokushin or kickboxing.
What do you get?
Now, type in Kung fu, or better yet your personal style of kung fu.
What do you get?
Interesting eh?
Try the same thing on redtube, then report back.
BBWWAHHHHHH !!!
Sick *******, LMAO !!
in 2005, youtube was born.
in 2006, we may find many relevant and good clips about kungfu.
nowadays, it is more and more difficult to search and find good clips.
lots of repeats and not so good clips abound
after wading pages and pages of not so good clips
I gave up.
so I started to save good clips with a free hosting site
and then blogger
so that I may see them easily and share with folks that are interested.
there is also advance search from google
anyhoo
repeats and not so good clips outnumber the good ones
such is the life.
[QUOTE=SPJ;1154923]in 2005, youtube was born.
in 2006, we may find many relevant and good clips about kungfu.
nowadays, it is more and more difficult to search and find good clips.
lots of repeats and not so good clips abound
after wading pages and pages of not so good clips
I gave up.
so I started to save good clips with a free hosting site
and then blogger
so that I may see them easily and share with folks that are interested.
there is also advance search from google
anyhoo
repeats and not so good clips outnumber the good ones
such is the life.
:([/QUOTE]
Speaks volumes doesn’t it?
The thing is that the top results in the systems I mentioned all showed people fighting or training fighting or training for a fight ( and of course the high profile fighters being interviewed).
You search for boxing videos and you get videos of guys boxing in the ring.
DO a search for Judo and you see competitions.
Same thing for sanshou/sanda or Muay Thai or kyokushin, etc.
I can be argued that these are sport systems ans as such the competitive videos are popular and easy to find.
Great, I accept that argument.
So search for those systems and add training at the end, what do you get?
Do the same for your chosen TCMA, and what do you get?
what do you get when you do a search for; ‘san shou kung fu’ ?
what do you get when you type in zen?
how about classical weapons training?
martial medicine?
I think it needs to be recognized that Kung Fu is MORE than just a martial sport.
Why do people bother trying to stick it in that box. You want that? have some san da or san shou. There, you can now have Kung Fu as a sport.
Fact of the matter is that other martial arts just don’t have as many avenues or limbs as Kung Fu does. get over it boxing, you have no weapons and meditation. boxing is still good. Get over it judo, you still never learned to throw a punch, and so on and so forth. 
I spent most of time in search of music video from the past and present on youtube.
I bookmark or tweet about them.
I also post them on facebook and google +
when I want to listen to the music
I may look them up easily on my facebook, google+ posts.
VEVO compiling some good clips of music videos from singers.
if only some one would do the same for kung fu clips.
or san shou clips
or styles of training clips
and call it
KEVO etc etc
http://www.youtube.com/user/LadyGagaVEVO?blend=4&ob=0
http://www.youtube.com/user/vevo?blend=1&ob=4
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1154937]what do you get when you type in zen?
how about classical weapons training?
martial medicine?
I think it needs to be recognized that Kung Fu is MORE than just a martial sport.
Why do people bother trying to stick it in that box. You want that? have some san da or san shou. There, you can now have Kung Fu as a sport.
Fact of the matter is that other martial arts just don’t have as many avenues or limbs as Kung Fu does. get over it boxing, you have no weapons and meditation. boxing is still good. Get over it judo, you still never learned to throw a punch, and so on and so forth. :)[/QUOTE]
The fact that the majority of the videos of a Martial art don’t show ANY fighting says a lot dude.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1154957]The fact that the majority of the videos of a Martial art don’t show ANY fighting says a lot dude.[/QUOTE]
I knew how to fight before I took up Kung Fu and had been in more fights before taking up practice than after.
But if you type “san da training” or “san shou training” you’ll see plenty of fighting. These being the sport fighting models for kung fu.
So, in context to what Kung Fu is, it doesn’t say much really other than Kung Fu is not just boxing, or not just wrestling, or not just throwing etc etc.
so…anyway:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kung+fu+sanda
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kung+fu+sanshou
and here’s a little rbsd from teh kung fu fights search!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHiftWa3yOY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HysegS3Wgho&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaC1gyrygms&feature=related
wu lin da hui
entertainment first, entertainment in the middle and entertainment at last.
such is the life, too.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1154961]I knew how to fight before I took up Kung Fu and had been in more fights before taking up practice than after.
But if you type “san da training” or “san shou training” you’ll see plenty of fighting. These being the sport fighting models for kung fu.
So, in context to what Kung Fu is, it doesn’t say much really other than Kung Fu is not just boxing, or not just wrestling, or not just throwing etc etc.
so…anyway:
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kung+fu+sanda
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=kung+fu+sanshou
and here’s a little rbsd from teh kung fu fights search!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vHiftWa3yOY[/QUOTE]
Indeed, if you search for sanda/sanshou you will see fighting and what is sanda/sanshou?
Modern chinese “MMA”.
I mention TCMA simply because this is a TCMA forum, but the issue is present in TJA ( of which the Okinawan ones get “mixed in with”)
What we should be seeing when we type in wing chun or hung ga or white crane or praying mantis, is people fighting with those styles.
I was reading Kennedy’s books again, the Training manual one and the Jing wu one, and in those manuals what you got was forms, yes, but applications and even strength training and it while even then there were writers lamenting the sad state of TCMA and how they had become “flowery fists”, the main view was that MA are for fighting and one took up a MA because they wanted to use it to fight ( from money or military or whatever).
But I digress.
The simple fact is that what we SHOULD be seeing when we do a search is the chosen MA being used in a fight, good or bad is irrelevant, people should be fighting or training to fight.
We do NOT see that.
The thing is that people put up videos ( be them private or commercial) of what they think people want to see, what they think their MA is all about and that THOSE people putting up videos are NOT showing people fighting, that too speaks volumes.
I don’t discount the arts themselves because there has been no model built for them to compete and I don’t hold it against any of them for not getting into mma which is indeed what san shou / san da is kind of.
My art may not be your art after all and I don’t think there is any value in pressing various arts into a box. In my opinion, that’s narrow minded and detrimental to the arts. If a Kung Fu student wants to compete and fight, he goes and does san shou. or whatever else he’s interested in that offers that.
Quite simply some tcma are not suitable for sport model and where they are is where san shou answers the call.
We don’t ask boxers to train kicking do we?
We don’t ask Judoka to start punching and kicking do we?
We don’t ask Kareteka to wrestle do we?
We don’t ask wrestlers to punch and kick do we?
We don’t ask MMA-ists to study classical weapons, medicine or meditation do we?
Why is it so important to force tcma into a framework that it doesn’t really fit into or that diminishes the transformative aspects of it as a preference? If Kung Fu became just another ****genous pile of stuff, it would lose it’s true value, it’s unique offerings outside of the context of merely fighting.
One doesn’t need to learn anything to have a fight or flight response after all.
Training is just training and at my age, I prefer training to be around healthful exercises and fitness regimens thet are found within the arts I study.
I’m not interested in collecting injuries from training. lol. I think that’s kind of stupid quite frankly and see no merit in it for the over 35 set and those guys that are doing that are just kidding themselves or chasing lost youth or some other mental construct that isn’t realistic.
Besides, even if a Kung Fu guy takes his gun to town, he’ll get derided for it and if he succeeds or fails, it will not be Kung Fu in anyone’s eyes.
Bottom line, if you don’t like TCMAs, don’t do them, don’t participate in their methods and go do what you think is better. the choice is certainly there and there is no one stopping anyone from doing that.
I dig the Kung fu I have and practice and am not in the least bit interested in fighting anyone at all. I train in the event that maybe I might have to fight someone some day and some training is better than none in my opinion, but no training negates any threat, ever.
We don’t ask boxers to train kicking do we?
We don’t ask Judoka to start punching and kicking do we?
We don’t ask Kareteka to wrestle do we?
We don’t ask wrestlers to punch and kick do we?
We don’t ask MMA-ists to study classical weapons, medicine or meditation do we?
Nope, but we do “ask” them all to fight.
While it’s great to state that kung fu is more than just fighting because over the decades we have add all this other crap to it that had very little (if anything) to do with its original form, none of that changes the fact that Martial Arts are about fighting first and foremost.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1155038]Nope, but we do “ask” them all to fight.
While it’s great to state that kung fu is more than just fighting because over the decades we have add all this other crap to it that had very little (if anything) to do with its original form, none of that changes the fact that Martial Arts are about fighting first and foremost.[/QUOTE]
Sure, but Kung Fu is not just martial art and is not about fighting first and foremost.
Kung Fu is literally “Time+Effort” and within it you will find fighting and indeed that can be the focus of your training no matter what. You can achieve Kung Fu in swordplay or marksmanship or boxing etc.
Kung Fu is also about cultivation of the better person within you. In my opinion it is unwise to do away with the transformative process that is inherent to the Practice towards achieving Kung Fu.
There is nothing stopping a Kung Fu practitioner from going and training to fight and fighting etc etc. I have no idea why people are so upset about it.
Kung Fu never “should” be what someone else thinks it should be. For one thing, there is more to Kung Fu than any individual mind can possibly learn, know and comprehend. There is no such thing as a person who knows everything there is to know about Kung Fu. That’s just the way it is.
When I look at Kung Fu, I can look at forms, weapons play, solo practice, fighting, meditation, hard work out, light work out, and so on and so forth. It is almost limitless in it’s offerings and yet has at it’s core and idea about developing a human into a full and capable person.
to be a full and capable person through the practice of Kung Fu and using it’s principles in daily life is much more descriptive of what Kung Fu is about. It is the fighting part that attracts young men to it though, I concede that. Young men like to fight and tussle. That’s just the way.
But to demand that all the myriad styles fit into a box and do what someone thinks they “should” be? I disagree with that. If I want to just fight, then I won’t take up Kung Fu.
If you want to fight competitively in a ring full on full blast etc etc, take up boxing. That’s what I did. I took up Kung Fu to transform.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1154961]
But if you type “san da training” or “san shou training” you’ll see plenty of fighting. These being the sport fighting models for kung fu.
[/QUOTE]
I don’t think its fair for all of Kung Fu to ride the San Da wave.
Boxers box
Kick Boxers kick box
Judo guys do judo
BJJ guys do BJJ
MMA guys do MMA
San Da guys kick box with throws
Kung Fu does form
That kung fu quest tv show out of Hong Kong is not bad.
The other night I saw the episode on Baji Quan:
One dude (with a background in Lau family Hung Gar) learned empty hand forms & learned how to spar with it - first against a baji quan player (bareknuckle, no head contact, with throws) and then against a supposed muay thai guy (mma gloves, limited contact).
A second guy (with a background in Kali) learned a whole bunch of pole stuff and had multiple spars with various people using the long pole (and protective gear).
I also saw part of an episode on Lam Family Hung Gar:
Phillip Ng (Chicago Choy Lay Fut Sifu Sam Ng’s son) interviews a Hung Gar guy who explains his fighting philosophy. They spar. The Hung Gar guy then explains some techniques he likes to use in San Shou (kick catches & what-not). Then they finished out the show with another spar.
They don’t go all out on the striking & the bareknuckle stuff comes off like a light version of kyokushin; but at least they show enough to get the idea. The throws were pretty nice.
[QUOTE=Ray Pina;1155043]I don’t think its fair for all of Kung Fu to ride the San Da wave.
Boxers box
Kick Boxers kick box
Judo guys do judo
BJJ guys do BJJ
MMA guys do MMA
San Da guys kick box with throws
Kung Fu does form[/QUOTE]
so a sport that was developed by chinese for chinese using chinese martial arts should not be considered a chinese martial art sport? right and boxers should stick to back alleys and thug lives to collect dues instead of fighting in a sport created by boxers for boxers?
yes perfect logic…
judging cma based on the form collection and modern wushu is the same as judging boxing based on cardio boxing forms and tai bo…so what about the cma figthers that partake in mma sport? they dont count do they? or do we need to point some out to you…again???