[QUOTE=BigPandaBear;1254763]If the epitome of CMA is ending up looking like a kickboxer, why don’t we just take kickboxing to begin with?[/QUOTE]
if the epitome of CMA is dancing like a transgender Uyghur acrobat with down syndrome, then by all means.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1254772]or maybe kung fu always looked like “kickboxing” and your idea of “kung fu” comes from movies and fantasies…[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this sure looks like kickboxing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y5Z8Gpq-RUY&app=desktop
I guess someone else was living in movie and fantasy land also.
this is fun 
But from my perspective TCMA has not improved from here, they have gone in opposite direction…
Fighting used to be “the norm”… but not any more
respectfully, i guess its a good thing you’re not the be all or end all of TCMA. you have a point, but this rant of yours is tiring man.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1254826]this is fun :)[/QUOTE]
Haha! Guy supposedly puts you on ignore. Then spends a bunch of time downloading and doctoring up an image of the ignore confirmation. Then responds to all of your posts anyway by uploading the image of the ignore confirmation every time.
Haha! Guy supposedly puts you on ignore. Then spends a bunch of time downloading and doctoring up an image of the ignore confirmation. Then responds to all of your posts anyway by uploading the image of the ignore confirmation every time.
everytime he focuses on someone he does the same thing over and over. i swear its like a broken record.
[QUOTE=Snipsky;1254832]
you have a point, [SIZE=“5”]but[/SIZE] …[/QUOTE]
lord forbid we actually discuss anything on a discussion forum…
:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Spiked;1254625]There is shaolin influence in this video and there is even a couple of throws. Can anyone identify stances, throws, techniques from this form?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bEmRciqlnFo[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1254821]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bEmRciqlnFo[/QUOTE]"]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bEmRciqlnFo
This one has all the kung fu techniques in it- marching, kicking, outer reap, chopping, leg seizing, embracing, cracking, dip jang takedown , shaving, hip toss, leg blocking, hooking, sweeping.[/QUOTE]
Interesting. Posting a clip from Child Beauty Pageant Dance Mom’s with the Stars of Orange County and calling it kung fu wasn’t exactly comedy gold the first time.
Why would you steal such a bad joke. . .?
Unless. . .
[QUOTE=wenshu;1254847]"]http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=bEmRciqlnFo
This one has all the kung fu techniques in it- marching, kicking, outer reap, chopping, leg seizing, embracing, cracking, dip jang takedown , shaving, hip toss, leg blocking, hooking, sweeping.[/QUOTE]
Interesting. Posting a clip from Child Beauty Pageant Dance Mom’s with the Stars of Orange County and calling it kung fu wasn’t exactly comedy gold the first time.
Why would you steal such a bad joke. . .?
Unless. . .[/QUOTE]
I put up the video because doing form is glorified dancing. Let us be honest here. If you can take throws out of a form then you can surely find throws in dancing. If it is all interpretation that is…
Trying to bait me in, eh?
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1254773]Gene once suggested that national forms competitions and the influence of modern wushu started the trend, but we could discuss it even more :D[/QUOTE] Forms competitions go way way back. You could even argue that the earliest documented examples of forms could be traced to ‘sword dances’ for which there is evidence that goes back millennia. The notion of martial performance through dance is quite pervasive in ancient culture, especially tribal cultures. It was a show of strength. Look. Our warriors can bust some bad ass moves. Don’t mess with us.
What changed was turning it into sport. This is a trend we see arising in the wake of firearms throughout Asia and Europe. Now this is where wushu taolu becomes a significant factor (we won’t discuss wushu sanda, as most people overlook that aspect of modern wushu anyway :o). A lot of people will point their fingers at wushu taolu with the ol’ ‘flowery fists, embroidered legs’ accusation, but the key to remember here is that this accusation is old. As soon as the firearm arises, you start seeing criticisms of martial arts losing its fighting essence worldwide. There are rants against the Samurai, the Shaolin monks, and even fencing masters, that go back to the 16th century. The difference there might be print - no forum to rant on - but those complaints are nothing new. If anything, I think that it’s just more exaggerated now. There is so much diversity that a crazy wide range of manifestations of martial arts is readily available at a touch of your keyboard. Sport has also become more formal than ever before (compare boxing rules back in the day to today, or even MMA rules a few decades ago to today). With any game, competitors seek advantages through loopholes in the rules. So its natural that any sport tightens up over time. Eventually the rules become the essence. Anyone who has competed in any serious sport knows this. So when you have a rule set for something like MMA, versus a rule set for something like modern wushu (both of which are still in their infancy in terms of rules, IMO), there’s bound to be opposition. It’s also bound to get highly specialized.
That being said, I don’t think these complaints are all that new. Cosplay is new. Well, sort of. If I work hard enough at it, I could compare it to the complaints of frivolous Samurai helmets and how they felt it was degrading bushido.
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1254855] The notion of martial performance through dance is quite pervasive in ancient culture, especially tribal cultures. It was a show of strength. Look. Our warriors can bust some bad ass moves. Don’t mess with us.
[/QUOTE]
The idea of war dances is certainly not new, neither is the criticism of those that specialize in the dance over the fighting skill. I think what is more relatively, recent, is the inability to distinguish between the two.
Sure, ritual dance goes back a long way in all societies. Some might even say Bagua circle walking is related to Taoist circle chanting…
Nor is criticism new of course, we have it back with General QI
But in NYC Chinatown in the 1980’s, well we had guns (TRUST ME ON THAT!) and yet forms were not addressed the same way. A view of the old ESPY TV “masters’ demo” tapes will confirm that
Also, for a long time ritual dance and even some “sport” was side by side with fighting…
You had the Kuoshu Lei Tai events in 1920’s and 1930’s, you had the ring fights in HK in 1970’s and 1980’s… .early US sanshou had TCMA school participation for quite a while…
There is something a little more going on here than just that explanation
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1254855]
we won’t discuss wushu sanda, as most people overlook that aspect of modern wushu anyway :o).
[/QUOTE]
most people say it isn’t real kung fu anyway
[QUOTE=wenshu;1254847]"]
Interesting. Posting a clip from Child Beauty Pageant Dance Mom’s with the Stars of Orange County and calling it kung fu wasn’t exactly comedy gold the first time.
Why would you steal such a bad joke. . .?
Unless. . .[/QUOTE]
Because it highlights the essence of trying to pull techniques from forms. The only difference between doing it from a form and these kids’ dancing routines is that the forms are labeled martial arts and the dancing is labeled dancing. Functionally, there’s no difference.
Blame MMA
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1254858]There is something a little more going on here than just that explanation[/QUOTE] I’m not sure about he rest of the country, but MMA changed the governing laws in CA for full contact. We can do light contact and point sparring, but that was never a big thing for TCMA to my recollection. We used to do combined tournaments too, where an all-around champ had to to empty-hand forms, weapon forms and spar, but no longer. Now, if you want to do full contact, that’s pretty much all you’ll be able to afford to do. That’s the fallout of sport fighting.
As for the fallout of sport wushu (taolu), I’d venture to say that made CMA more family friendly. I mean, in TCMA, there was always your Kung Fu siblings, but with modern taolu, its classes of rugrats doing the after-school programs. For a lot of non-martial arts families, the notion of forms - of non-contact - is very appealing.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1254860]most people say it isn’t real kung fu anyway[/QUOTE] Everyone has their own idea of what real Kung Fu is, right? Real Kung Fu is my Kung Fu. Yours is fake. :rolleyes:
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1254864]I’m not sure about he rest of the country, but MMA changed the governing laws in CA for full contact. We can do light contact and point sparring, but that was never a big thing for TCMA to my recollection. We used to do combined tournaments too, where an all-around champ had to to empty-hand forms, weapon forms and spar, but no longer. Now, if you want to do full contact, that’s pretty much all you’ll be able to afford to do. That’s the fallout of sport fighting.
[/QUOTE]
That doesn’t account for the late 1990’s when the sanshou nationals have zero TCMA participation… what you cite means it would be very hard to revive, but doesn’t account for the original shift (IMHO)
Greetings,
Regarding the original links:
The monkey practitioner studied Thai boxing. It kept popping up in his posture and he kept having to shake it off.
Chai Wai Man studied Western boxing. He was never ashamed to admit it.
Both men went beyond style to improve themselves. I do not know if it can be said that they improved their styles.
mickey
[QUOTE=GeneChing;1254864]
Real Kung Fu is my Kung Fu. Yours is fake. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
OF COURSE MY KUNG FU IS FAKE! Haven’t you been paying attention? 
lord forbid we actually discuss anything on a discussion forum…
how many times does the same thing need to be talked about?? this topic is just the rotting remains of a seriously dead horse.