There often isn’t a great deal of TCMA conversation on here anymore. Weeks go by, and I haven’t seen anything to warrant a reply. I think a large part of this is the MMA TCMA bashers, which is sad really. Instead of discussing kung fu, we spend half our time defending it or apologising for it.
I personally tend to post on the Southern forum more now.There’s more talk about kung fu and less bashing (just our resident troll, who’s become a pastiche of himself anyway).
Old Jong - the state of wingchun is exactly part of the problem, it’s a magnified example of the state of martial arts, so much infighting about who does what better no one has anytime to practice and therefore sucks. I maintain my view that most Wingchun guys suck, its the truth, however it turns out they are not alone. Wingchun the art is a different story all together, a respectable art in and of itself and I have never had an issue with it. I have taken up cross training to compete, period, not because I have decided it is better then TMA and I maintain my Preying Mantis class once a week. When I met Carl Dechiara much of what I had seen had been so called wingchun, after getting out and exploring a little, and fighting a little as well (Something I recommend wingchun guys try for once instead of playing patty cake) my horizons have broadened and I have come to realise that not only does wingchun not have everything it needs, just about every person I have come into contact with who fights on a regular basis has greater skill then the majority o fthe chi sauing wing chun hippies out there. 
Old Jong - the state of wingchun is exactly part of the problem, it’s a magnified example of the state of martial arts, so much infighting about who does what better no one has anytime to practice and therefore sucks. I maintain my view that most Wingchun guys suck, its the truth, however it turns out they are not alone. Wingchun the art is a different story all together, a respectable art in and of itself and I have never had an issue with it. I have taken up cross training to compete, period, not because I have decided it is better then TMA and I maintain my Preying Mantis class once a week. When I met Carl Dechiara much of what I had seen had been so called wingchun, after getting out and exploring a little, and fighting a little as well (Something I recommend wingchun guys try for once instead of playing patty cake) my horizons have broadened and I have come to realise that not only does wingchun not have everything it needs, just about every person I have come into contact with who fights on a regular basis has greater skill then the majority o fthe chi sauing wing chun hippies out there. You should go back to the wingchun forum now so you and the other old and mislead guys can slap each other on the ass after holding hands, I mean sticky hands.
Ben Gash, sort of what I am basically getting at…
Yeah, but what I’m saying is that the TCMA guys don’t come here because there’s very little for them to talk about.
I think there is plenty for them to talk about it but I think they just don’t come here anymore to talk about it.
mabe what I am percieving, from what appears to be the majority of MMA proponents, or “reality combat” practitioners etc… is that to be a serious martial artist you need to be training as if you were going into competition?
mabe what I am percieving, from what appears to be the majority of MMA proponents, or “reality combat” practitioners etc… is that to be a serious martial artist you need to be training as if you were going into competition?
Not really. Even the guys training for competition via Chinese styles - San Shou, San Da, SC - don’t get the same respect as the Judo, MT, or BJJ guys. It seems that unless you are doing one of these three disciplines, no one takes your skills seriously.
You’re either in their camp and correct, or your not. No exceptions.
Originally posted by MasterKiller
[B] Not really. Even the guys training for competition via Chinese styles - San Shou, San Da, SC - don’t get the same respect
[/B]
San Shou/San Da guys get ****ed on from both ends, the MMA zombies insist we just do crappy kung fu and the so called TCMA crowd insist we dont’ do Chinese martial arts
At least there is still internet P o R n 
Had to reply…
Red 5 says:
I maintain my view that most Wingchun guys suck, its the truth…
Umm, how many WC practicioners are there in the world? and how many of them did you touch hands with to reach your conclusion that “most” suck?
Just curious…
San Shou/San Da guys get ****ed on from both ends,
LOL! I know they get some respect around here, the shaolin school my buddy is going to is adding a San Shou program soon…of course to be fair they train pretty seriously there, spar and do competitions, both forms and fighting.
don’t get the same respect as the Judo, MT, or BJJ
Outside of the nutriders, the guys from those camps tend to respect individuals more than the style.
I think a large part of this is the MMA TCMA bashers, which is sad really. Instead of discussing kung fu, we spend half our time defending it or apologising for it.
Ben, but don’t some, not all, of the CMA guys bring it on themselves by making claims that can’t be backed up? I’ve never met Gen Choi or Funakoshi so any reference to their skills is word of mouth, but I can go see, meet and even train in the same room as a Royce, Randy or any number of top fighters. I might even get a few pointers from them. I think the ring sport crowd just want to see something concrete and don’t care about debating if Bruce Lee beat some Chinese master is a basement, or if some CMA master beat 40 Koreans in a street fight.
yes but why can’t the ring/sport people leave the guys who aren’t interested in the ring/sport aspect of training and fighting alone? It goes both ways, don’t get me wrong but what’s the freakin’ deal here?
Weren’t you thinking of competing in MMA?
Is this forum that much worse that it ever was? I guess I’m surprised at the amount of vitriol that’s built up here. Not just from you. I’m surprised in general. I guess I hadn’t really noticed until you pointed it out though.
Originally posted by red5angel
Suntzu - the martial arts are as faddish as some other aspects of our society. Back in the 70’s and 80’s it was karate and TKD, before that it was kungfu, now its grappling and “reality fighting”. When kungfu was big it was because of the movies. People wanted to look like that, and fight like they did in those movies.
Karate and TKD started doing large scale competitions and branching out into chains of dojos, then people began to take those.
UFC hit the scene and every decided that grappling and “reality fighting” is the way to go.
There’s even a not so small movement in the “martial arts” community towards for your health type workouts, taichi, some others.
None of these fads really invalidates any of those classes of arts, kungfu, TKD, karate, grappling, all of them can be used effectively in a “real fight”, or in the ring if you just train apropriately, but when I stated on this forum a little over 4 years ago there were quite a few actual kungfu guys on the forum who appeared to be studying traditional arts- buy the way, some people use “traditional” as nearly a bad word on this forum in particular but elsewhere as well, I do not - and suddenly the amount of grappling and “reality based” martial artists sky rocketed over especially the last 2 years.
Naw Tae Kwon Do, Karate, and Judo are still the most popular martial arts like they always been. Most people in Europe don’t eve know what ufc is or think the concept of mma fighting is illegal, even in U.S.A it’s common.
Every discussion of kung fu technique gets turned into a MMA training diary. This is, afterall, supposed to be about Chinese martial arts.
I’ve learned a lot from guys like MP and 7*, but sometimes I just want to talk shop without all the bullshlt and jockeying.
yep, I am competing in MMA type events, also in kungfu events. My desire is to compete period. I’m not attacking anyone in particular, but wondering why everyones so busy attacking each other, and why it seems in a kungfu forum that kungfu guys are sort of the acception and not the rule.
It feels like it has. When I started here Ap there were a few guys who didn’t do kungfu, but for the most part provided some really good input and there was a lot of discussion about this or that technique and how it can be used, this and that form, or style. Gradually, but more recently within the last two years, its gone from that to why do you bother with that when this is better, or just look at this and that competition to see what really works, and blah blah blah. Instead of earnest discussions on how to use kungfu and how to make it better ,it seems to have come to one large ****ing match for the most part over mma or tma, reality over tradition, etc…
maybe it sticks out more now for me because over the last year or two I have had some good exposure to all sorts of arts and all sorts of practitioners that pretty much renders those types of arguments moot and piontless.
Not really. Even the guys training for competition via Chinese styles - San Shou, San Da, SC
Huh.
That’s really very interesting to hear, especially from Sifu Ross. My experiences on MMA.tv have led me to believe that those who aren’t nutriders, as rogue mentioned, have INCREDIBLE respect for those who compete in San Da. Now, they frequently make fairly inaccurate statements about what it IS (Muay thai and wrestling put together). But they respect the people who do it.
red5angel;
I’ll tell you one thing, I think people get different things out of martial arts. I appreciate that there are people that do it as a hobby or for interest other than ringfighting. I don’t believe that you have to train like a ringfighter to be any good.
I do think this: Many TMA practicioners bemoan the lack of quality TMA “these days,” discussing how people don’t take their training seriously, etc. However, when you discuss ringfighting as a possible solution, there tends to be a lot of push-back on that subject. I don’t understand that.
Originally posted by Merryprankster
That’s really very interesting to hear, especially from Sifu Ross. My experiences on MMA.tv have led me to believe that those who aren’t nutriders, as rogue mentioned, have INCREDIBLE respect for those who compete in San Da. Now, they frequently make fairly inaccurate statements about what it IS (Muay thai and wrestling put together). But they respect the people who do it.
MMA.tv may give it to them. MMA people here generally don’t.
It’s all in the mind. It doesn’t matter what you train in. There are untrained streetfighters out there who have nothing to lose, no emotions, cold eyes, who will not stop no matter what, and have no fear. They always win in the end.