Hello All,ive just read a depressing article on wing chun by jesse glover.one time Bruce Lee student.glover said that he agreed with wong shun leung who said."wing chun is a good horse that few can ride"or words to that affect.and that wing chun really only teaches you to fight other wing chun attackers.
for me tht goes against everything i have read about wing chun.i wa told it was quicker to learn than most martial arts,and because it was principal based,it was along with bjj,one of the few street effective styles available.
and if glover is correct,what of all the woman and smaller people trining in what they hope will one day save/help them out.any and all ideas about this depresing article much appreciated.
Anyone can have opinions- why is Jesse Glover’s opinion more important than many others. I doubt that WSL said that wc is good only for wc.
Originally posted by yuanfen
I doubt that WSL said that wc is good only for wc.
Of course he never said that - he wasn’t stupid.
But mr. Glover’s logic is infallable 
. It leads me to conclusion that people who are training tennis or some other sport can only play against people who are also experienced tennis players, and not against beginners or laymen
:rolleyes:
“captain” wrote:
Hello All,ive just read a depressing article on wing chun by jesse glover.one time Bruce Lee student.glover said that he agreed with wong shun leung who said."wing chun is a good horse that few can ride"or words to that affect.
Personally, I agree with Wong (which explains, in part, why WCK isn’t dominating NHBs ;)) although I think a more accurate metaphor may be driving an automobile: almost anyone can learn to drive, and some are better drivers than others, but few ever attain the ability to drive at Indy (be world-class drivers). I don’t think there is anything to be “depressed” about – unless you think you can become a world-class driver without innate talent, good coaching, lots of hard training, etc. TN
and that wing chun really only teaches you to fight other wing chun attackers. “captain”
I have my reservations about the accuracy of the above statement. I’d be interested to see (and I’ve read all opf Jesse’s books and don’t recall that opinion) where you came up with it. TN
Terence
captain writes:
> glover said that he agreed with wong shun leung who
> said."wing chun is a good horse that few can ride"or words to
> that affect.
The same might be said about Jeet Kune Do, or any martial art for that matter. What percentage of martial art students out there really know their stuff, AND can use it?
> and that wing chun really only teaches you to fight other wing
> chun attackers.
I can’t imagine that WSL would say that, especially considering that he used WC to defeat a lot of non-WC people. Though I have heard from another lineage that chi sao is only for fighting other WC people 
Personally, I didn’t think chi sao was for fighting, much less against other WC people, but this guy was not about to let his beliefs get challenged
What WSL Really Meant
Originally posted by aelward
captain writes:
> glover said that he agreed with wong shun leung who
> said."wing chun is a good horse that few can ride"or words to
> that affect.
LOL! Probably what he said was, “few in Wing Chun have a good enough horse.”
I would agree with that. 
WSL was probably talking about Jesse Glover.
ha ha
I agree with Grendel, but don’t know if WSL was talking generaly or not.
I can’t think of anything a student of Bruce Lee could write that would depress me.
he guys.on yahoo uk,i typed in the name jesse glover.one of the finds was an article by jesse glover called.“bruce lee and wing chun”.
jesse glover said he had sparred with many wc guys and that the sticking hands rarely worked.he agreed with the wsl quote,but the bit about wc only working against wc had nothing to do with wsl.it was glover’s lone.perhaps i didnt make myself clear enough.it as glover who maintained that opinion.
the depressing bit works like this.i do judo,but love the look of wc,im on the edge of giing it a good try.but the article WAS depressing because it seemed to devalue what ive com to larn about wing chun.quick to learn,effective on the street,good for smaller folk,and women.[im a guy by the way.]do you see what i mean here.
omeone tell me he was wrong!!!
for your consideration,here i that article by jesse glover.
Hmmm…
Well, it’s an interesting read, and it’s clear the man was in awe of Bruce Lee’s abilities.
Whether it bruised anyone’s egos or not, it would have been a
better read if he’d named some of the Wing Chun men he’s Chi Sau’d with.
It sounds to me as though his talk of pressure sticking is what most of us would just call sticking.
My response to this…
… is that if Bruce Lee was Jesse Glover’s teacher then Mr. Glover doesn’t know much about Wing Chun except some basic things. Bruce Lee never completed his training in Wing Chun. In addition, When I have looked at his Jeet Kune Do materials many things do not follow Wing Chun concepts, though some do. I believe this is because he was not able to finish his training in Wing Chun. Therefore, he took concepts and techniques from other styles in order to compensate for his lack of understanding or skill in Wing Chun.
This is my theory.
So, in my opinion, Mr. Glover is speaking from ignorance [I have not read the article so I am only going by what has been previously posted].
Marty
Rene,any thoughts on this.
Captain- I wouldnt be deterred from learning wing chun well by Glover’s remarks and i dont understand why you would be depressed by them. Glover is a good fighter- but lots of people in different styles are. He developed very well what he learned from Lee. Some of his remarks are correct- to wit- that it is better to do something very well than learn a lot of things that are not done well by the individual. And that there are wing chun people who cant apply what they claim to have learnt. But beyond that his comments on wing chun are not particularly important IMO.
i see,so as a teacher of wing chun you can vouch for the style being of some use for self defence,and not a s obscure as glover points out.i have heart no doubt,and we have some good [im told] wc classes about,i just wish to know im spending my time in a worthy way.if you see?
Captain- the foundations for Lee’s fast hands and feet
started with wing chun.
Of course I have confidence in the effectiveness of wing chun.
But your own devotion to correct practice- no one can do that for you. Good luck.
What’s so depressing about the article? Seemed pretty positive to me w/respect to Wing Chun. Some of you are buying the “most deadly art” thing and the “teach woman to beat up skilled attacker twice her size” thing too seriously.
I haven’t read Glover sifu’s article, so cannot comment on his proposal(s), but, in terms of what this thread has addressed, my thoughts are twofold:
-
Wing Chun Kuen is a progressive system for improving fighting skill, but it is not a magic little pill. It can make a good fighter great, and with time a bad fighter competant, but it cannot make a scrub into a world champ over night. So, while I think WSL’s line is apt, I think Terence’s quote (from Hawkins Cheung?) is even more apt.
-
Wing Chun Kuen seems to me to be designed to fight other arts, not WCK, but I do think many modern teachers have (miss)focused it, in some cases making it into a hippie-Tai-Chee like excerise of slow forms and exclusive Chi Sao (no balance, and no San Sao), while others just stay in the kwoon and seldom think about what goes on outside its walls.
IMHO, WCK, well trained, is among the best stand up fighting arts yet devised, and with proper overall consideration, very applicable to personal self defense.
RR
If this is a recent article, it’s surprising that Jesse Glover would express such ignorance of Wing Chun after all these years. He expresses fundamental misunderstanding on the concept and principle driven art with his reference to sticking hand techniques counters ad infinitem, and the contention that Wing Chun can only react in one certain way.
Glover’s use of the word “pressure” suggests that he mistakes forward energy for forward intent. It is also obvious that he hasn’t met any good Wing Chun hands since Bruce Lee. He is right that to be effective, Wing Chun needs to be able to deal with forward pressure.
It isn’t surprising that in an Australian website, he cites Wong Shun Leung, who was probably the best Wing Chun teacher to visit and teach there.
All in all, not much there there in this article.
Regards,
I do not know Jesse Glover personally, but I would say that Jesse commands formidable WC skills. My first WC instructor (WSL) told me that Jesse has a unmovable tan that one cannot pak it at all regardless how strong you are. How many people can do this? Other well-known WC instructors whom I will not mention here also have a good opinion of Jesse’s WC ability though they may disagree with his training methods. It is hard to appreciate the greatness of the man until you meet him face to face and see what he offers first.
Regards,
I think it would be more apt to say Jesse has formidable FIGHTING skills as opposed to classical Wing Chun skills.
His approach to training poon sau is much more strength and power based, at least based on the videos I’ve seen of him. And his backfist is NOT something one would want to be on the receiving end of.
They are all about VERY strong forward pressure to the point of leaning and really applying a lot of power. I think if someone does not have good structure or sensitivity they will be in a lot of trouble against him and his guys.
And to top it off Jesse has a true streetfighters mindset.
That is a powerful attribute to have.
I think Jesse has a low opinion of many WC instructors because he has not seen very good ones–given those are hard to find, anyone who didn’t train with the right base and attitude would I think be steamrolled by him and his crew.
Originally posted by PaulH
[B]I do not know Jesse Glover personally, but I would say that Jesse commands formidable WC skills. My first WC instructor (WSL) told me that Jesse has a unmovable tan that one cannot pak it at all regardless how strong you are. How many people can do this? Other well-known WC instructors whom I will not mention here also have a good opinion of Jesse’s WC ability though they may disagree with his training methods. It is hard to appreciate the greatness of the man until you meet him face to face and see what he offers first.
Regards, [/B]