You need to strengthen the fascia and over time it will thicken and then you can activate it and learn to accept the force coming through your body and dissolve it into the ground.
beating yourself with objects is not iron body training but Pai Da Gung which is a component of Iron Body training.
You need to train the internal(fascia) and the external(dermal tissue) to accept more abuse.
Iron palm training
Okay now I know some of my threads concerning iron training methods have disagreed with certain folks in the past. I’m posting this thread purely for the purposes of learning what folks on here do as part of their training. Though there may be questions by myself regarding the why and the how I think the critique of “does iron palm work” has been done to death.
So for those of you who practice or teach iron palm I have a few questions for you:
Again I will query as to why and how but I will not critique.
My friend practice this form of kung fu, and he is nice and far in it.
What he tells me is, you need to implement CHAN,QI QONG and your KUNG FU in it.
To master it!
I guess he’s right about it!
I don’t teach IH training to anyone,most people don’t have the dedication or, to be honest, even need that type of training.
For the vast majority, the conditioning they get from hitting the bag is enough.
For those that want to learn it I insist on them being able to fight well/effectively first.
I have found that some end up relying “too much” on their IH and their fighting skills get downgraded.
You train twice a day for the first year.
You than train daily for another year.
after that you train whenever you want.
I train my hands 2-3 days a week.
This for basic Iron Palm, most people NEVER get through this and give up before they are finished.
Sad but true.
I have rarely taught the advanced levels where you switch from hard contact to focusing it down and abbreviating the movement but still allowing for maximum power generation through the structure.
I have the softest hands around but people have seen me break concrete, coconuts etc. I can make them hard at anytime. The liniments are to protect you from seriously injuring yourself. I have no issues with my hands and I needle people all day with very thin needles.
Many people who train their hands without medicine have serious arthritis and other joint issues.
I first started with hitting a mung bean bag and changed it to iron after a few weeks. There is also a neigong ritual before and after hitting the bag.
There is a pleasant feeling in my hands when I apply the yao jiu but I haven’t tried it without the yaojiu to know the difference.
always use the Liniment.
Injuries and health issues are negated with the use of liniment.
In regards to Jow:
Honestly, until you have used the good stuff, you really have no idea how well that **** works !
I make some of the strongest unwatered down dit da jow out there. Beware those who are not licensed acupuncturists/herbalists.
I am having a Falling Ahead sale. All you have to do is type in Fall Ahead in the coupon code box at checkout and you will save 10% off your entire order. Good until Xmas.
Sanjuro Ronin and many others here and on other boards can attest to my liniments and their efficacy.
www.coilingdragon.com to order.
What regimen do you start your new students with?
Slapping the bag with 3-4 different hand formations. Repetitions and rate of progression are not fixed but depend on the person. I start my students on gravel. I teach the qigong routines but stress that I feel the qigong is the least important part of the training.
Once they’ve achieved proficiency at that regimen what do you progress them to?
Steel shot bag after a couple months on gravel, initially lightly, and then with some power so that the student can learn the power generation. Its at this point I start working with methods of slapping concrete if the student wants to get into breaking.
Approximately how long does #1 usually take
#1 takes very little time; 3 months maximum.
What are the next levels you progress them to?
There are a variety of other types of training ranging from benign to IMO, dangerous, most of which are a bit more in depth to explain. Wall bags, open medium, gripping, tension drills, etc etc…Most of this has to do with creativity, and anyone can come up with a new spin on training that is useful since its not been done previously.
Are there any supplementary exercises you usually get the. To do besides hitting the canvas bags (grip exercises, forearm strengthening etc.)?
To be clear: Iron palm IS one of the supplementary exercises, along with all that stuff you mentioned–None of it has anything to do with fighting–its just conditioning. Just because you break stuff or hit hard or have a strong grip or whatever doesnt mean you can apply it under pressure, and it certainly doesnt mean you know the first thing about fighting. Its just supplementary work.
Do you personally think jow is necessary or important?
The short answer: YES! Anyone who has experimented on a steel shot bag with and without jow knows this.
The more thorough answer is, it really depends on what youre doing: If youre just dropping your hand lightly on a rice bag, I really dont think its necessary although it would still be helpful. However, if youre really wanting to push yourself and get the most out of the training, then jow is a no-brainer and a very important necessity for the health of your hands.
Do you practice breaking? If yes when and why?
Yes, I practice breaking, although its been nearly a year since Ive really broke anything. Only reason why is that I enjoy breaking, its a nice feeling to successfully make a difficult break, because it really does require a lot of conditioning and power to be able to do some breaks. With that said, it really doesnt have anything to do with fighting.
For me, iron palm is just something I do to bide my time when I dont have a training partner. As Ive said before, the best fighters Ive ever met have done NO conditioning work at all, save for what they get from actually training under pressure. No bag strikes, no shin conditioning, etc etc. They just worked on fighting so thats what they got good at…
Here’s a dumb question. Doing it twice a day and using the Dit Da Jow on your hands. If I do it in the morning before work and then put on the Jow, how long before I can wash my hands?
I always smell like I just drank when I’m done and spilled it all over myself. Anyone else have this problem?
[QUOTE=Kevin73;1193762]Here’s a dumb question. Doing it twice a day and using the Dit Da Jow on your hands. If I do it in the morning before work and then put on the Jow, how long before I can wash my hands?
I always smell like I just drank when I’m done and spilled it all over myself. Anyone else have this problem?[/QUOTE]
I would keep it on for 20-30 min.
20 minutes is decent and the medicine has been absorbed and you can wash the residue off your hands.
Though many of the formulas I sell do not smell all that bad.
People smell like Chinese or Indian food.
[QUOTE=Kevin73;1193762]Here’s a dumb question. Doing it twice a day and using the Dit Da Jow on your hands. If I do it in the morning before work and then put on the Jow, how long before I can wash my hands?
I always smell like I just drank when I’m done and spilled it all over myself. Anyone else have this problem?[/QUOTE]
My teacher told me for one hour and he also told me that I shouldn’t wash my hands with cold water for a few hours.
Old wives tales about the hour long waiting period. 20 minutes is enough if you need to wash it off. I leave it on all day and training short little sets throughout the day when Im at my clinic as I have a bag in the clinic.
Never wash with cold as it will shock your body. Always wash off liniment with warm or hot water.
[QUOTE=Dale Dugas;1193775]
Never wash with cold as it will shock your body. Always wash off liniment with warm or hot water.[/QUOTE]
I can understand how cold water would inhibit circulation and blood flow to the area. From a pure absorption standpoint, however, warm/ hot water will leach the medicine more so than cold water
If you want to warm up your hands in the winter time or if you have absorption issues you can warm them in hot water for 5 minutes and the apply your medicine.
The poster was asking about washing the liniment off, not about absorption issues. Hence my telling them that cold water is not the way to go.
[QUOTE=Dale Dugas;1193846]If you want to warm up your hands in the winter time or if you have absorption issues you can warm them in hot water for 5 minutes and the apply your medicine.
The poster was asking about washing the liniment off, not about absorption issues. Hence my telling them that cold water is not the way to go.[/QUOTE]
I agree. I think the way I quoted you earlier was confusing so my mistake.
Cold water has its uses. Google “cold water dousing.” Basically you dump a bucket of cold water on your head after you take a shower.
No idea if all the health benefits attributed to it are legit, but it definitely wakes you up. That shock is exactly what people want. There’s some potentially voodoo science behind it, but it will definitely wake you up.
Start with room temperature water and progress to colder water over a period of weeks if you’re gonna do it.
Don’t do it if you have heart problems.
But yeah, I wouldn’t use cold water to wash jow off.
There’s also something similar called a “James Bond shower.”
Oh, according to western science, heat is pro-inflammatory, so you probably don’t want to soak your hands in hot water after training. I know it sounds like a good idea, to increase the blood flow, but it will also increase inflammation which will lead to damage and incomplete healing over time.
Icing for less than 20 minutes is anti-inflammatory.
I’d probably just stick with the jow, though.
I did see a website in the late 90s that recommended holding your hands under hot running water for a few minutes after training iron palm instead of using jow. That sounds like a bad idea.
But heat before a workout is fine, especially if you are “cold,” which can lead to injuries.
I’m just mentioning this in case someone goes “I don’t have any jow, jow increases blood flow, hot water increases blood flow, therefore I will just use hot water and skip the jow.”