If it does how do you train it?
The only iron skill worth learning is Iron Crotch - the ladies love it. 
short answer is yes it does, and you train via proper instruction.
you might find some good info in these threads. a bit of sifting will be needed. there are several posters here who are very familiar with iron methods. of immediate note to my memory; Mooyingmantis, Sanjuro Ronin, Dale Dugas are all iron palm and or body practitioners that know what they are talking about. im sure there are more, but i just cant recall who at the moment.
It does work.
Mooyingmantis and Sanjuro Ronin can also chime in with their experiences as well.
Let me know how I can be of service to you.
[QUOTE=Dale Dugas;1143637]It does work.
Mooyingmantis and Sanjuro Ronin can also chime in with their experiences as well.[/QUOTE]
As Dale said, yes it works.
Iron Palm
Just remember that iron palm is much more than just the ability to break blocks with your hands. Yes, I can do that: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uD2CJC82vWM Though it often gets the most press, block breaking is a minor, secondary effect that comes from iron palm training.
In my opinion, the true point of iron palm training is two-fold:
- It toughens the hand to protect it against injury when striking.
- It teaches you the physics of energy transference through an object.
Iron palm was designed to teach you how to strike the human body with concussive force that can injure the internal organs.
A qualified instructor is the best way to learn the skill. I also recommend the iron palm DVD from the Iron Lotus Society: http://www.theironlotussociety.com/Products.htm It is an excellent resource and is just like being there with them in class. Plus, they hold nothing back.
Iron Body
A very necessary skill in ancient times, a cool skill to learn in modern times. It toughens the body to endure a great deal of physical abuse.
in short: train harder then the guy you’re trying to beat and you’ll win. 
not to take away from the esteemed individuals aforementioned…but, the bottom like is: train harder than the next guy.
I’m a little rusty on my iron shirt…
lol…
yes, it works and it conditions the body.
slow repetitive striking hardens the skin and muscle tissue through density increase. Bone is hardened in a similar way except through a shock/crack/refill process.
Internal Iron Body uses lots of twisting exercises that help to strengthen and thicken the fascia of the body.
Advanced exercises are used to condition the tissues and the bones.
There is both Pai Da Gung which is basically beating the body to thicken tissues, and desensitize the body.
Then there is internal Iron Body which does not use hitting the body but focuses on training the fascia through twisting and moving the body through certain routes of motion.
Both will get you to the same destination but will be different in appearance.
There is also “Shi Swei Jing” which combines certain “intention based” preparation methods, warm up massages and direct utilizization of weighted increments to train deep layer connective tissue for cohesive strength. A beating sequence, specific to meridian structures in the body follows, usually done with an iron flail but on occasion in early stages with a bamboo flail when the practioner is not yet strong enough.
And yes, it works.
Shifu Patterson has shared another method that trains internal and external using different methods but again there are many paths to the same destination.
I have a copper flail that I bought from my kung fu brother which was made of out of copper high power line.
Love my flail.
My wife hates it when I tap in the house…
[QUOTE=Mike Patterson;1143848]There is also “Shi Swei Jing” which combines certain “intention based” preparation methods, warm up massages and direct utilizization of weighted increments to train deep layer connective tissue for cohesive strength. A beating sequence, specific to meridian structures in the body follows, usually done with an iron flail but on occasion in early stages with a bamboo flail when the practioner is not yet strong enough.
And yes, it works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asroj2x2CqU[/QUOTE]
Sifu Patterson, is “cohesive strength” a reference to strength gained through internal body unity?
I am asking, because I am trying to find parallels or corelations to some of the Chow Gar methodologies I have trained. Your reference to “intension based” training also rings a lot of bells, also, as regards some of the methodologies which those who do not train the Internals seem not to comprehend.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1143862]Sifu Patterson, is “cohesive strength” a reference to strength gained through internal body unity?
I am asking, because I am trying to find parallels or corelations to some of the Chow Gar methodologies I have trained. Your reference to “intension based” training also rings a lot of bells, also, as regards some of the methodologies which those who do not train the Internals seem not to comprehend.[/QUOTE]
Well, I see you took out your “thank you for the video. it was interesting.” comment while I was typing this, to which I was going to say; “Gawd! You haven’t seen that before? It’s ancient. That footage was shot in 1981!”
Anyways, that aside… I am referring to training deep connective layers through the discipline called “Shi Swei Jing” (Wash Marrow) as usually translated. CT runs through the entire body, in and around everything. The aspect of Shi Swei that uses incremental weight based training understands this. The more weight that is applied, the greater the “load” on the CT that runs from the privates up through the torso and beyond. Over time, this yields tremendous strength of this tissue.
The preparation work we do involves manifest intention in standing frames mostly with very slight actuation of movement, not yet real motion as would be perceived by the naked eye, but actuation of movement. This then engages these same deep layer connective tissues which is a skill we need to support large amounts of weight. It is not uncommon for practitioners like myself to routinely support 150 lbs. or more with this method.
But some people on this board do indeed get this. TGY comprehends this quite well in my humble opinion. He made an exceptional entry on the “key to internal” thread, page 9 near the bottom.
It’s not mystical. It’s practical. Just less common I reckon.
Thank you Shifu Patterson.
My own Iron Vest training uses many twisting exercises to incorporate the CT to thicken and strengthen.
You need to strengthen the CT.
You need to somehow progressively overload the CT to strengthen it.
[QUOTE=Dale Dugas;1143872]Thank you Shifu Patterson.
My own Iron Vest training uses many twisting exercises to incorporate the CT to thicken and strengthen.
You need to strengthen the CT.
You need to somehow progressively overload the CT to strengthen it.[/QUOTE]
Right, Dale. Tax any system in the human body and it will respond by strengthening that same system, assuming it is healthy, oc.
Many old “kungs” are based on this simple truth. Body banging drills, conventional body mass strength trainings, etc.
The trick is in finding a way to tax the system in question without too much risk of permanent injury.
[QUOTE=Mike Patterson;1143848]There is also “Shi Swei Jing” which combines certain “intention based” preparation methods, warm up massages and direct utilizization of weighted increments to train deep layer connective tissue for cohesive strength. A beating sequence, specific to meridian structures in the body follows, usually done with an iron flail but on occasion in early stages with a bamboo flail when the practioner is not yet strong enough.
And yes, it works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asroj2x2CqU[/QUOTE]
Mike, Do you have any connection to (Tian Zhan Men) or (Ting Zhan Men)?
[QUOTE=Mike Patterson;1143848]There is also “Shi Swei Jing” which combines certain “intention based” preparation methods, warm up massages and direct utilizization of weighted increments to train deep layer connective tissue for cohesive strength. A beating sequence, specific to meridian structures in the body follows, usually done with an iron flail but on occasion in early stages with a bamboo flail when the practioner is not yet strong enough.
And yes, it works.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Asroj2x2CqU[/QUOTE]
Mike, Do you have any connection to (Tian Zhan Men) or (Ting Zhan Men)?
[QUOTE=Mike Patterson;1143879]Right, Dale. Tax any system in the human body and it will respond by strengthening that same system, assuming it is healthy, oc.
Many old “kungs” are based on this simple truth. Body banging drills, conventional body mass strength trainings, etc.
The trick is in finding a way to tax the system in question without too much risk of permanent injury.[/QUOTE]
Very true, Shifu Patterson.
You have all these people who think the 72 Arts of Shaolin Book is real with all manner of training that would injure if not seriously damage your body.
Slow and steady wins the race.
[QUOTE=Mike Patterson;1143869]Well, I see you took out your “thank you for the video. it was interesting.” comment while I was typing this, to which I was going to say; “Gawd! You haven’t seen that before? It’s ancient. That footage was shot in 1981!”
Anyways, that aside… I am referring to training deep connective layers through the discipline called “Shi Swei Jing” (Wash Marrow) as usually translated. CT runs through the entire body, in and around everything. The aspect of Shi Swei that uses incremental weight based training understands this. The more weight that is applied, the greater the “load” on the CT that runs from the privates up through the torso and beyond. Over time, this yields tremendous strength of this tissue.
The preparation work we do involves manifest intention in standing frames mostly with very slight actuation of movement, not yet real motion as would be perceived by the naked eye, but actuation of movement. This then engages these same deep layer connective tissues which is a skill we need to support large amounts of weight. It is not uncommon for practitioners like myself to routinely support 150 lbs. or more with this method.
But some people on this board do indeed get this. TGY comprehends this quite well in my humble opinion. He made an exceptional entry on the “key to internal” thread, page 9 near the bottom.
It’s not mystical. It’s practical. Just less common I reckon. :)[/QUOTE]
Thank you again Sifu Patterson. I see some parallels with the Chow Gar training and of course, there are some differences, but the essence of the methodology and what it strives to achieve is very much similar.
[QUOTE=Mike Patterson;1143869]Anyways, that aside… I am referring to training deep connective layers through the discipline called “Shi Swei Jing” (Wash Marrow) as usually translated. CT runs through the entire body, in and around everything. The aspect of Shi Swei that uses incremental weight based training understands this. The more weight that is applied, the greater the “load” on the CT that runs from the privates up through the torso and beyond. Over time, this yields tremendous strength of this tissue.[/QUOTE]
you speakin’ ma language;
if you are not already familiar with Tom Myers work on anatomy trains (http://www.anatomytrains.com/), as well as the work of Stephen Levin, MD (http://www.biotensegrity.com/) and Donald Ingber, MD, PhD (http://www.childrenshospital.org/research/ingber/) on biotensegrity, I think you will enjoy it immensely…(the links to all of that stuff plus a lot of other neat things are here)
the whole thing about Iron Vest / Palm training makes perfect sense in context of tensegrity principles of continuous tension / discontinuous compression: when u stretch CT, it aligns along the vector of the force, increasing it’s strength / resistance to tearing; when u compress it, it becomes discontinuous, dispersing the force over a wide area, again to minimize damage; Iron Vest / Palm training seems to make use of these properties, in effect enhancing the ability of CT to perform in this way (and, a note, I have only done IV / IP minimally in the past, I do not currently train it, so I am not speaking from direct personal experience in that specific regard, even though some of the qigong I do is a “health” version of this)
[QUOTE=Mike Patterson;1143869]The preparation work we do involves manifest intention in standing frames mostly with very slight actuation of movement, not yet real motion as would be perceived by the naked eye, but actuation of movement. This then engages these same deep layer connective tissues which is a skill we need to support large amounts of weight. It is not uncommon for practitioners like myself to routinely support 150 lbs. or more with this method.[/QUOTE]
it SOUNDS like u guys r practicing what involves “pre-contraction” of deep spinal stabilizers, such as the multifidi muscles, which certainly do have relationships to the deep connective (non-contractile) tissue of the core (in fact, I seem to recall reading somewhere that there are fibers of the multifidi attaching directly to the outer dural membances at the lumbar region, but I have to go check that; I have def seen one study that links the sub-occipital musculature to the dura at the cranio-cervical junction though);
[QUOTE=Mike Patterson;1143869]But some people on this board do indeed get this. TGY comprehends this quite well in my humble opinion. He made an exceptional entry on the “key to internal” thread, page 9 near the bottom.[/QUOTE]
thank you very much (again) for the acknowledgement; and let me just say that I write based on a combination of my personal experience and knowledge base that I have accumulated (and as u can tell from the links above, the people who have generated this knowledge are a lot smarter than I am or ever will be); my goal has been to describe these so called “indescribable” practices from a so-called “western” paradigm; my belief is that in doing so you a) demonstrate the universal “truth” of these practices and b) give people a more concrete means by which they can better judge if someone who is professing to know these practices really knows what they are talking about or is just spouting quasi-mystical Taoist terms to cover their own lack of knowledge;
most importantly, there is not a single thing I write that I consider above debate or critique: meaning that, I could well be totally wrong about it all - and if anyone wishes to point out specifically where I am in error - just provide a counter-argument with examples and I am all ears
[QUOTE=Mike Patterson;1143869]It’s not mystical. It’s practical. Just less common I reckon. :)[/QUOTE]
exactly! in my field, many practitioners think a lot of the phenomenon they see patients experience during various types of hands-on therapy are “paranormal” - spontaneous body movement, emotional responses to treatment, rapid resolution of long-term symptoms seemingly “by magic”, and they start getting into explanations about different energy fields, astral bodies, etc, etc - without realizing that all of these things are well within the bounds of normal human physiology - it’s just that they are, as Mike succinctly puts it, “less common”;