How do you approach forms (Kata / Taolu) within your style or art?
Do you teach the forms meaning (i.e. Bassai Dai ~ “To Penetrate a Fortress, major”)? How do you define this?
What methods do you use to transmit the forms? Do you teach applications? If so, how do you approach this aspect?
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1094915]How do you approach forms (Kata / Taolu) within your style or art?
Do you teach the forms meaning (i.e. Bassai Dai ~ “To Penetrate a Fortress, major”)? How do you define this?
What methods do you use to transmit the forms? Do you teach applications? If so, how do you approach this aspect?[/QUOTE]
I teach my students the forms by itself, as in explaining the movements first and then show him how to do it, then do it together and let him do it for awhile. Don’t tell him even he have mistakes, let him fiddle with it for a while first and maybe next lesson you can correct a bit, and then next lesson a bit more, let him take it in slowly. Applications are taught only to more advance students because for beginners they get too hyped up about the application part and the forms will be done very sloppy or wrong. So let them focus on one thing before another and not confuse them is my key.
This is how I teach kungfu to my students. Don’t always think about fighting, think about what you are doing, which is the form. A form is a form, it is not a combination of fighting movements, it is a form. Do it as is and enjoy doint it without having to “fight an invisible man” in your brain.
as an after thought these days.
nowadays, form is 10 minutes at the end of a two hour session.
To keep them fresh. 
[QUOTE=CYMac;1094916]This is how I teach kungfu to my students. Don’t always think about fighting, think about what you are doing, which is the form. A form is a form, it is not a combination of fighting movements, it is a form. Do it as is and enjoy doint it without having to “fight an invisible man” in your brain.[/QUOTE]
Your wrong ! A form IS a combination of fighting movements. You are disrespecting your Chinese culture by lying to people by saying you are a “SIFU”, and teaching that pile of Sh.it you call kung fu.
Forms are a set of fighting techniques linked together to create a pattern. The pattern is practiced to help with things like: Muscle memory, strength, agility, fighting with combo’s etc etc.
What a douche bag your are CYMac… if you practice kung fu forms for fun… that is ok, but do not go around telling everyone you are a Sifu and teach when you clearly are not a teacher!
ginosifu
[QUOTE=ginosifu;1094934]Your wrong ! A form IS a combination of fighting movements. You are disrespecting your Chinese culture by lying to people by saying you are a “SIFU”, and teaching that pile of Sh.it you call kung fu.
Forms are a set of fighting techniques linked together to create a pattern. The pattern is practiced to help with things like: Muscle memory, strength, agility, fighting with combo’s etc etc.
What a douche bag your are CYMac… if you practice kung fu forms for fun… that is ok, but do not go around telling everyone you are a Sifu and teach when you clearly are not a teacher!
ginosifu[/QUOTE]
Is it that serious?
[QUOTE=metsubushi;1094938]Is it that serious?[/QUOTE]
When a person teaches martial arts and works hard at ensuring that people properly develop, and part of his methodology is the correct instruction and oversight of correct understanding of the material being taught, then yes, it is perfectly normal for them to take offense at what they will surely perceive as a mockery of their hard work through time and effort.
Wouldn’t you agree?
[QUOTE=CYMac;1094916]This is how I teach kungfu to my students. Don’t always think about fighting, think about what you are doing, which is the form. A form is a form, it is not a combination of fighting movements, it is a form. Do it as is and enjoy doint it without having to “fight an invisible man” in your brain.[/QUOTE]
This is very clear in your videos.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1094941]When a person teaches martial arts and works hard at ensuring that people properly develop, and part of his methodology is the correct instruction and oversight of correct understanding of the material being taught, then yes, it is perfectly normal for them to take offense at what they will surely perceive as a mockery of their hard work through time and effort.
Wouldn’t you agree?[/QUOTE]
I guess. They’re only forms. I don’t really see the merit of imagining you’re fighting an invisible man with these odd patterns of movement either. Some of those positions are full of holes and liable to create some really poor muscle memories.
[QUOTE=metsubushi;1094938]Is it that serious?[/QUOTE]
Yes, very much so.
If CYMac practices forms for only personal enjoyment, this is fine for himself. When you add “I am now teaching these to others and proclaiming to be a Sifu”, that’s where we have to draw the line and say you a wrong to teach when your kung fu skills are bad and you are barely a beginner your self.
I take offense to the fact that he treats teaching kung fu as a joke.
ginosifu
Your wrong ! A form IS a combination of fighting movements. You are disrespecting your Chinese culture by lying to people by saying you are a “SIFU”, and teaching that pile of Sh.it you call kung fu.
Forms are a set of fighting techniques linked together to create a pattern. The pattern is practiced to help with things like: Muscle memory, strength, agility, fighting with combo’s etc etc.
What a douche bag your are CYMac… if you practice kung fu forms for fun… that is ok, but do not go around telling everyone you are a Sifu and teach when you clearly are not a teacher!
ginosifu
this needs bumped just for shear strength of expression.
I saw your Iron wire form cymac and I hope your not teaching that. :rolleyes:
funny thing is you have the movements down but your lacking the internal makings of the form. Something you can’t learn from a DVD.
[QUOTE=ginosifu;1094934]Your wrong ! A form IS a combination of fighting movements. You are disrespecting your Chinese culture by lying to people by saying you are a “SIFU”, and teaching that pile of Sh.it you call kung fu.
Forms are a set of fighting techniques linked together to create a pattern. The pattern is practiced to help with things like: Muscle memory, strength, agility, fighting with combo’s etc etc.
What a douche bag your are CYMac… if you practice kung fu forms for fun… that is ok, but do not go around telling everyone you are a Sifu and teach when you clearly are not a teacher!
ginosifu[/QUOTE]
As you can see my video of demonstrating the applications as well, yes the forms movements do have combat application in them. But the thing I am trying to say is, doing a form is doing a form, you are not fighting. THe movements are not used DIRECTLY as is (as how you do it in the form) to apply directly to the opponent and so if you imagine or visualize too much about the combat size when you do the form, you trap yourself in something and you forget about the building of the foundations in the form.
Just like in many styles, forms are used for building foundational elements such as stance, strength, and so on. In those training, you focus on the extension of your arms, your stance and sinking down the hip etc,. NOT about how your hands and legs are placed to hit the opponent right. If your mind is all in that combat stuff, you cannot do the form right for the purpose of building foundations.
This is not said by only me but by a few sifu I learn from before as well. Taichi and hung gar sifu. I was learning Shaolin 12 Road Tan Tui from the hung gar sifu and his way taught to me was to do it in three steps which the first is “stablizing”. Meaning you do the movements and the hold each for about 12-15sec with internal breathing done, and then you switch move. In that training, your movements have NOTHING to do with combat movements at all. The key is really taught to me — DON’T THINK ABOUT FIGHTING when you do the form there. Leave that for future stage.
If you say my way of doing kungfu got a problem, you are saying these sifu also got a problem and these sifu are surely older than you in martial arts as well. Don’t even try it. I know you got guts and you got your own point of view, but that doesn’t make you 100% correct. There are other lineages or sifu who do kungfu in another way you don’t know.
What you are doing now is just defensing your own view point by knocking down others. Saying I am right and you are wrong. How childish. You aren’t even up to any discussions at all. Too bad, closed minded.
[QUOTE=ginosifu;1094954]
Yes, very much so.
If CYMac practices forms for only personal enjoyment, this is fine for himself. When you add “I am now teaching these to others and proclaiming to be a Sifu”, that’s where we have to draw the line and say you a wrong to teach when your kung fu skills are bad and you are barely a beginner your self.
I take offense to the fact that he treats teaching kung fu as a joke.
ginosifu[/QUOTE]
I never treat kungfu teaching as a joke. In fact, you are getting on your nerves already before you listen to others. Control your temple man, I am just sharing my two cents that I learn from the past. If your way is not the same, doesn’t mean others is wrong. What I said is also what taught to me by 2 sifu(s) of mine in the past as well, not only my own view. These two are one hung gar and one taichi master. They both also agree the same thing as “forms are forms, you gotta do it right first and not always think about the applications.” When you think about application all the time, the forms cannot go smooth and you are wasting your time. Want application? there are “other” stuff to train for that.
In Taichi, yang style at least, we practise forms without thinking about the application but indeed focus on the body movements and all that structuring. The internal flow and all that. If you talk to ANY taichi master, they will tell you the same thing, what’s the most important thing in doing a taichi form? structure, and flow of your internal, and the yi (intention) which is for leading the chi.
Are you open up for any discussions or are you just there punching people down with your temper? I ain’t BS-ing out of my mouth, I am telling you what I learn in the past from others and also what I know now. You take it so offensive when people tell you something you don’t agree at first, where is the capacity of a kungfu man?
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1094957]I saw your Iron wire form cymac and I hope your not teaching that. :rolleyes:
funny thing is you have the movements down but your lacking the internal makings of the form. Something you can’t learn from a DVD.[/QUOTE]
What else do you know except for making a fire more violent when someone started it with a cigarrette? If you got stuff to say, say it, don’t just be a gas tank tosser to the fireplace here man.
I am not teaching hung gar to my student, I teach Tin Yat Lineage, don’t you know how to read (my old posts).
CYMac:
I am not angry in no way. You can do what you want to do. You doing differently does not make wrong. Everyone can agree that, we all teach differently and have different perceptions of applications etc etc. I am offended that claim to be a Sifu when clearly everyone here can agree that your skill level in your Videos is less than a beginner student.
[QUOTE=CYMac;1094962]As you can see my video of demonstrating the applications as well, yes the forms movements do have combat application in them.[/QUOTE]
Your applications are bad. You lack any combat knowledge of the forms.
[QUOTE=CYMac;1094962]If you say my way of doing kungfu got a problem, you are saying these sifu also got a problem and these sifu are surely older than you in martial arts as well. Don’t even try it. I know you got guts and you got your own point of view, but that doesn’t make you 100% correct. There are other lineages or sifu who do kungfu in another way you don’t know.[/QUOTE]
I have never seen or heard of your teachers so I can not comment on them. I am only commenting on YOUR performance. Your performance is what is dis respectful your your teachers.
ginosifu
[QUOTE=ginosifu;1094974]CYMac:
I am not angry in no way. You can do what you want to do. You doing differently does not make wrong. Everyone can agree that, we all teach differently and have different perceptions of applications etc etc. I am offended that claim to be a Sifu when clearly everyone here can agree that your skill level in your Videos is less than a beginner student.
Your applications are bad. You lack any combat knowledge of the forms.
I have never seen or heard of your teachers so I can not comment on them. I am only commenting on YOUR performance. Your performance is what is dis respectful your your teachers.
ginosifu[/QUOTE]
If you say the combat skills is bad, then it means it is just not the same as yours, but if it work for me and others, then it works. There are many people who interpret mvoes in a different way also, if they are not the same as yours, doesn’t means it is bad. We all use the forms or moves in a way that fit us the most. If you can’t understand it well, then that’s your problem. But to me., the moves do work well in combat because of skills and abilities I possess. Just for example, I can block a punch and make the guy’s limb numb for over 30 sec, that’s an ability, so if other’s don’t have that power, they cannot use a move I use in my way because my skills are like that for a certain meaning. Anyway, I don’t think you are open enough for any discussion because you hold your standing very strong. so bye bye then.
[QUOTE=CYMac;1094976]If you say the combat skills is bad, then it means it is just not the same as yours, but if it work for me and others, then it works. There are many people who interpret mvoes in a different way also, if they are not the same as yours, doesn’t means it is bad. We all use the forms or moves in a way that fit us the most. If you can’t understand it well, then that’s your problem. But to me., the moves do work well in combat because of skills and abilities I possess. Just for example, I can block a punch and make the guy’s limb numb for over 30 sec, that’s an ability, so if other’s don’t have that power, they cannot use a move I use in my way because my skills are like that for a certain meaning. Anyway, I don’t think you are open enough for any discussion because you hold your standing very strong. so bye bye then.[/QUOTE]
No you can’t. You can’t make someone’s arm numb for 30 seconds.
You’re an idiot.
[QUOTE=JamesC;1094977]No you can’t. You can’t make someone’s arm numb for 30 seconds.
You’re an idiot.[/QUOTE]
Just because you cannot doesn’t means I cannot. Open your eyes up to what is called “internal energy”, . That’s what most internal styles use. It’s just nothing rare to see. You see shaolin monk doing “pressure point hitting” with these as well. They can tap you lightly and you can feel painful in the internals for over a few minutes until they “undo” the stuff to you. You never heard of these? Are you really into kungfu?
Don’t call me an idiot because you are more idiotic than I am if you never heard of what this is about. Go back to your kickboxing, kungfu is not even something you like at first, right?
[QUOTE=CYMac;1094987]Just because you cannot doesn’t means I cannot. Open your eyes up to what is called “internal energy”, . That’s what most internal styles use. It’s just nothing rare to see. You see shaolin monk doing “pressure point hitting” with these as well. They can tap you lightly and you can feel painful in the internals for over a few minutes until they “undo” the stuff to you. You never heard of these? Are you really into kungfu?
Don’t call me an idiot because you are more idiotic than I am if you never heard of what this is about. Go back to your kickboxing, kungfu is not even something you like at first, right?[/QUOTE]
You watch too many movies. You’re an idiot.
[QUOTE=JamesC;1094991]You watch too many movies. You’re an idiot.[/QUOTE]
You watch too much MMA and UFC too. Back to your ring, Mr.Kickboxer. Did you ever see any demonstration by shaolin monk or wudang masters showing what internal strength is? Maybe you don’t. Just some Chan style taichi master maybe even able to show you this on youtube or google too. It’s really NOT SOMETHING RARE. Don’t watch too much movies Mr.Kickboxer. You are the one who watched too much movies and not getting your hands on any real kungfu internal training and that’s why you laughed. It’s really NOT SOMETHING RARE to find! Go research yourself first, then laugh – at yourself.