http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th3g1C4jbd8
enjoy!
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1153188]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th3g1C4jbd8
enjoy![/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing your knowledge brother.
Yes, thank you for sharing.
thanks for posting this Hendrik! Your explanation of SLT truely is training the small details. about 10 years ago i developed a chi sao platform with this exact idea of continous power that you are discribing, it’s really cool to see how you do it in your forms.
You all are welcome.
Siu Lin tau is for training neigong or engine. It is certainly not just mimic the move and practice for next 100000 years and get no where. So, every bits needed to be clear. What I present is the indoor training where Public student doesn’t get. In the old time, neigong training is purposely hold out of public. It is a transformation of body and mind.
My bottom line here is, to release it. So the art could continous. Atleast know, what exist in the past.
I am no ms wing Chun or yik kam, I don’t know everything. But I do know briefly what likely on 1850 how things look. Some how later for some reason, the snake reel evolve out of the picture and the crane withstand with bow become rigid hold and support by fix structure. Yjkym become either larger stance or lock up the three bottom bows.
Imho, WCK Jin cannot be the Hkm ngo cho or hung gar type because WCK has that pendulum Retograde sickle nature. That is the way to make WCK sets alive. Once one put the snake reel crane withstand into the set, the snake engine will awake and the set become alive.
Thanks Hendrik, interesting and well explained 
A discussion on Bows: there is a saying “People walk the Bow. I walk the Bow String.” Some interpret it as others travel the curve, but Wing Chun travels the straight line. But there’s more to it.
Though the Body is/are Bow/s, while the bow stores the energy, the power is expressed through the Bow Strings. We are not bashing someone with the Bow, but the power is released into the opponent through the Strings.
This is totally related to Fajin of many “soft” styles. (I don’t like the “soft” style term, as really there is no soft or hard.)
Yik kam slt bow as it is.
And the force travel on the invisible string joining the two edges. Replace every joint in your body with this
http://www.macsspring.com/trianglespring.aspx
Or
Like this
http://www.ironmind.com/ironmind/opencms/Main/captainsofcrush.html
It is a triangle like but not a rigid triangle rack.
This is a partial kuen kuit for the first section to give you a feel
. Left hand whip out lateral Jin.
. Place the awareness in finger, craw, around the sleeve .
spinning retrograde natural ly Accord to the medirians flow.
The following is partial for second section
the back of palm facing outward with a full Shen / awareness and yee / intention
flip the palm pulling reel guarding the heart
suck and split releasing unstopable strength .
If the sky opened up for me,
And the mountain disappeared,
If the seas ran dry, turned to dust
And the sun refused to rise
I would still find my way,
By the light I see in your eyes
The world I know fades away
But you stay
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBGm15iuNVQ
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1153230]This is a partial kuen kuit for the first section to give you a feel
. Left hand whip out lateral Jin.
. Place the awareness in finger, craw, around the sleeve .
spinning retrograde natural ly Accord to the medirians flow.[/QUOTE]
After taking a look at the clip (finally!) I can see some major similarities on the ‘idea’ of fluidity of motion and how that is acheived, over the familiar tensed and closed way some practise their SLT sets.
But I have to say, the first ‘section’ you highlight seems to just be a Hoi Sik (Signature Set) of Yik Kam and has little, or nothing to do with the SLT set itself fme. The snake characteristic and flow is great but personally I would give full credit to Yik Kams ‘addition’ rather than say it’s the be all and end all of Wing Chun SLT.
Rather like the ‘Kuen Kuit’ you mention too. Is it not just Yik Kams personal notes?
It is clear that your dynamics are different than most western Wing Chun schools, as will be the SLT itself I presume, and I would put this down to a heavy Taichi influence, possibly dierectly inputted by Yik Kam himself for his own reasons.
I find that from a healthy perspective, you may be onto something, but as far as Wing Chun is concerned I rather like the format and message Ip Man put out himself even if that too is very much misunderstood these days imho.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1153315]
But I have to say, the first ‘section’ you highlight seems to just be a Hoi Sik (Signature Set) of Yik Kam and has little, or nothing to do with the SLT set itself fme. The snake characteristic and flow is great but personally I would give full credit to Yik Kams ‘addition’ rather than say it’s the be all and end all of Wing Chun SLT.
Rather like the ‘Kuen Kuit’ you mention too. Is it not just Yik Kams personal notes?
It is clear that your dynamics are different than most western Wing Chun schools, as will be the SLT itself I presume, and I would put this down to a heavy Taichi influence, possibly dierectly inputted by Yik Kam himself for his own reasons.
.[/QUOTE]
My finding from my research is
- Take a look at the WCK lineage such as yks, snake crane, chan wah there is always a snake reel or sup jee sau section before the so called Sam bai fut section. Take a look at kulo Fung Chun clip, the snake reel type of signature include the emei 12 zhuang five finger trace taichi is there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PDpx5juWHX0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6Ap3Hgfbqs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bmXWjKPYIts
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tj5OElGZCgU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IEej1FpJwo
Thus, we know there is a snake reel section befor the Sam bai fut section.
The following yik kam kuen kuit hold for that snake reel or sup jee sau section across WCK lineage.
. Left hand whip out lateral Jin.
. Place the awareness in finger, craw, around the sleeve .
spinning retrograde natural ly Accord to the medirians flow.
Similarly, the following yik kam slt kuen kuit hold for the so called Sam bai fut section of slt across WCK lineage.
the back of palm facing outward with a full Shen / awareness and yee / intention
flip the palm pulling reel guarding the heart
suck and split releasing unstopable strength .
- Slt snake reel or yik kam reel is distinctly different to taiji but emei 12 zhuang related. As #1 above, there is a trace of emei snake signature in this section across WCK lineage. Snake reel can also identify in the biu jee set .
As Sifu Sergio has pointing out in his biu jee YouTube clip on how the mainland China WCK lineage did the biu jee. Take a look at that clip. Also, the above snake reel kuen kuit applied to this type of biu jee handling in Sergio s clip.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I4eWIAYvf9Q
Thus,
From the yik kam kuen kuit and seeing trace from different WCK lineages , we know there are details in 1850 which evolve away today.
For example, The thump handling is one of the details . Across taiji lineage doesn’t use this type of handling, but emei 12 zhuang does. Thus, it is not just reel or flow , it is different ways of flow handling.
And The bow in slt also has evolved.
Hold on or fix clamping to fix structure and sink root to the ground doesn’t Empower slt. Like a car, one needs those shock absorber . Bigger size frame or mount the rack rigid doesn’t do the job of shock absorb.
IMHO, yjkym is levitate or float on top of the bows instead of make a fix rigid rack and sink or mount to the ground. WCK evolve away from the white crane San chin stance this way.
- Things exist in the past always left a trace . But it is not an easy topic.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1153322]3. Things exist in the past always left a trace . But it is not an easy topic.[/QUOTE]
You are not wrong there!
Thanks for trying to shed light on what you mean and I will be sure to look into the clips you have posted (although I think I may have already done so before)
Just to keep things moving, are you ‘suggesting’ that the hoisik that Yik Kam used, and the one you demonstrate before the SBF in SLT in the clip, is actually contained in all/most of mainland Wing Chun? In which case it may not have been Yik Kams personal addition?
Or are you saying that most mainland lineages have a flavour of this hoisik in their own training sets? Connecting them to pre 1850 version of WCK?
Hey Hendrik,
In regards to the spring behind your wrist anology in crane withstand in the section section of yi kam siu lin tau clip, is it one spring that goes from behind your wrist directly to your torso? or a spring that goes though each joint of the body from behind your wrist through your elbow, though your shoulder, through your hip, through your knees down to your ankles?
and when absorbing/desoliving the opponent force (hua jing), do you utilize the spring in each joint or just in one or two joints?
you once mentioned that the snake engine is like you hit on your spring bed, each of them wave in different ways. Did you mean that each spring is set in a different angle so that they can absord forces from different directions?
Also is the crane withstand concept what you refer to as 6 direction force vector?
..
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1153348]You are not wrong there!
Thanks for trying to shed light on what you mean and I will be sure to look into the clips you have posted (although I think I may have already done so before)
Just to keep things moving, are you ‘suggesting’ that the hoisik that Yik Kam used, and the one you demonstrate before the SBF in SLT in the clip, is actually contained in all/most of mainland Wing Chun? In which case it may not have been Yik Kams personal addition?
Or are you saying that most mainland lineages have a flavour of this hoisik in their own training sets? Connecting them to pre 1850 version of WCK?[/QUOTE]
1.As in all other WCK lineage clip above,
The yik kam slt first section is not the hoisik. Hoisik is a different sequence.
-
Snake reel is snake reel , different lineages can have Different reeling combination. Those who knows it can do just one single huen sau, a biu jee as Sergio does, or a sup jee sau to show the reelling in WCK. Nothing fix . It is the present of soul of the art matter .
-
Got nothing to do with hoisik. It is focus on snake reel and crane withstand.
slt has a core element of snake reel or twisting/winning spring and a core element of crane withstand or triangle bow. And every older WCK lineages from yks, chan wah sun, snake crane, kulo, cho all has them.
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1153356]Hey Hendrik,
In regards to the spring behind your wrist anology in crane withstand in the section section of yi kam siu lin tau clip, is it one spring that goes from behind your wrist directly to your torso? or a spring that goes though each joint of the body from behind your wrist through your elbow, though your shoulder, through your hip, through your knees down to your ankles?
and when absorbing/desoliving the opponent force (hua jing), do you utilize the spring in each joint or just in one or two joints?
you once mentioned that the snake engine is like you hit on your spring bed, each of them wave in different ways. Did you mean that each spring is set in a different angle so that they can absord forces from different directions?
Also is the crane withstand concept what you refer to as 6 direction force vector?
..[/QUOTE]
-
Every joints is a bow.
-
Six bows can be used as one or individually.
Snake reel = winding spring
Crane withstand = bow spring
Triangle, arc, lever, …ect = mechanics advantage.
All are core elements of implement Jin in 6 Direction force vector field.
All are a part of the snake engine.
All are a part of the dynamic structure
- One needs the big picture and details to make things work = siu Lin tau = the training of small details.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1153372]Snake reel = winding spring
Crane withstand = bow spring[/QUOTE]
Does the snake reel winding spring function exactly like the crane withstand bow spring when it comes to absorbing the opponent’s force?
if not what’s the difference in the two spring methods when absorbing the opponent’s force?
you once mentioned that the snake engine is like you hit on your spring bed, each of them wave in different ways. Did you mean that each spring is set in a different angle so that they can absord forces from different directions?
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1153381]Does the snake reel winding spring function exactly like the crane withstand bow spring when it comes to absorbing the opponent’s force?
if not what’s the difference in the two spring methods when absorbing the opponent’s force?
you once mentioned that the snake engine is like you hit on your spring bed, each of them wave in different ways. Did you mean that each spring is set in a different angle so that they can absord forces from different directions?[/QUOTE]
Crane bow
http://www.macsspring.com/trianglespring.aspx
Snake reel
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balance_spring
Please re visit my previous post above on snake engine.
Instead of Keep thinking, do all the stuffs in my play with five layers Kung clip. Those are special drill for develop these stuffs covering different cases of reel spring bow spring combination with fa Jin.
I have no secret those stuffs are WCK ancestors properties, not mine. So, use it . Just make sure to give credit to Cho family and my sifu Cho Hung Choy for preserving things.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1153364]1.As in all other WCK lineage clip above,
The yik kam slt first section is not the hoisik. Hoisik is a different sequence.
-
Snake reel is snake reel , different lineages can have Different reeling combination. Those who knows it can do just one single huen sau, a biu jee as Sergio does, or a sup jee sau to show the reelling in WCK. Nothing fix . It is the present of soul of the art matter .
-
Got nothing to do with hoisik. It is focus on snake reel and crane withstand.
slt has a core element of snake reel or twisting/winning spring and a core element of crane withstand or triangle bow. And every older WCK lineages from yks, chan wah sun, snake crane, kulo, cho all has them.[/QUOTE]
Thanks Hendrik that does make sense to me (of sorts)
This sort of discussion interests me as you know, not just because of my Sigungs small connections to Kulo and Cho family, but because I think I was also taught something very similar but at different points in training. Not as one set in itself.
As an example, my opening sets of CK & BJ contain some of these characteristics too as well as my wooden man training.
So we know, the so called clamping in yjkym is bow set up, it is not fix rigid. With bow set up, one will get the power in agile nature narrow stance.
That is how slt depart from white crane of fujian 's wider San chin stance into the direction. And this clamp is also not hung gar iron wire set type of yjkym because slt clamping is a spring stance not a rooted stance. Slt yjkym sits in neutral potion to allow the bow to be ready at all instance. Sinking and rooting is no longer neutral stance.
With the above, it forces the slt yjkym to go internal soft to develop the bow.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1153206] Yjkym become either larger stance or lock up the three bottom bows. [/QUOTE]
How do you keep the three bottom bows unlock, while at the same time relaxing the lower back, butt?
[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1153600]How do you keep the three bottom bows unlock, while at the same time relaxing the lower back, butt?[/QUOTE]
Loosing the whole body.