Exploding the Myth of the So-called Internal martial arts?

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Taijiquan and the Internal Martial Arts
81

Better some sparring than no sparring.

Besides, guys that REALLY train are taught methods of doing sets and sparring that prepare a person properly for real combat. blacktaoist OBVIOUSLY underwent this type of training and thus is entirely prepared to put it to the test.

Arrogance has absolutely nothing to do with this thread. In kung fu, the basic issue is whether or not one’s techniques WORK or not. And in this thread, it’s to discuss why SHOULDN’T they work.

In the street, which these arts were created for, there’s no room for hauteur or ego. A guy comes at you, either you fight him off or you get beaten down. True kung fu men know that all that energy spent in ego-pontificating and holier-than-thou-ing would be better served fending off that opponent - or at least TRAINING to fend him off. In short, “it’s put up or get F%$k up”

I don’t disagree in the least with the “harshness of presentation”. This is life or death we’re talking about here. Real internal stylists have this attitude because kung fu is often the only thing keeping them from being taken down by the nefarious elements of society.

Even to those who practice kung fu strictly for health benefits, a serious and even harsh approach is often warranted. One must SWEAT and ENJOY IT to do kung fu.

If anything, blacktaoist’s rants have been very respectful. This guy could present immense laundry lists of guys who say they can fight and CAN’T fight, but he respectfully refrains from naming names. That’s something a real internal stylist would do - honor other practitioners regardless of their perceived skill level.

Besides, he’s willing to step up to the plate on his comments. If anybody feels offended by his remarks, let them call him on it in person via hand testing.

That’s the way of the true kung fu fighter - don’t make a statement unless you’re willing to put it to the test

82

Peace

TaiChiBob,
(Self-appointed thread dictators are a dime a dozen.. this thread, as i understand it (not as i tell you it is), is for Tai Chi players to share experiences, concepts, communicate and learn..)

Wrong! The thread is about Internal practitioners that can’t use their art (99%). This was not about Tai Chi alone but the entire Nei Jia.

(Of course this thread is about health, how healthy is someone laying in the hospital because they learned a “dance” without the application and experience (sparring) to back it up..)

You take things out of context. And you’re a bit contradictory. Make up your mind. You’ve done this also in some of your previous post in this thread. We’re taking about the ability to use your technique in any given situation, which in actuality is a mindset.

(My understanding differs, as i see it fighting is just ONE aspect of Tai Chi.. but, if that’s the limits you’re willing to set for yourself, so be it.. For me, Tai Chi is about living life at its fullest, free from the bonds of fear.. and, yes, fighting is essential to enable one to live at that level, but.. i think its a lot more than that simplistic approach…)

There are no limits in my pursuit of mastery of my art. All aspects.
Now I understand where your coming from, and your right from a full picture point of view. But you will only get the true benefits from the total training. Fighting is fundamental in that training. How do you learn to control the energy that you’re supposed to be training for? Fighting is the first stage. Push hands and sparring Teach you sensitivity and projection. Real fights test your capability with these aspects. Post training trains the Mind as well as the body, for ONLY with a disciplined mind can you move the Chi with will alone. Meditation allows the chi to circulate on it’s own or through the disciplined mind, pursue the spiritual. I could go on, but again, this is not about health, It’s about why aren’t the majority of teachers in our art able to fight?
Let’s stay on the topic.

(Maoshan, do an ego check, why the aggressive language and supremist attitude? If you need a forum where people only agree with you, i suggest you start a new thread, or a new site.. but, i would hope your training would have helped you to explore tolerance and develop a spirit of sharing all the aspects of Tai Chi, not just the fighting..)

Ego check?
You got heart man, Look, I’m aggressive, that’s my nature and it’s appropriate in this thread. Besides, Ego? Supremist?
It was you who responded with the loftiness and condemnations because you felt we were wrong with our emphasis on fighting and not on health. You felt that you had to respond, wasn’t that your ego? What makes you think you can teach? Your ego, which is that sense of self-confidence that martial arts training imparts. You better look in the mirror my man.
Tolerance. I have none for those dancing around the issue. Patience is reserved for the things that count (family, friends, training, goals, etc.).
Something I think you’ve misunderstood as well, this thread was not directed exclusively to tai chi practitioners, but all the Nei jia.
I am a Ba-Gua practitioner. But back to your points.
Sharing? I wish I could But I Refuse to step that low. I’m not going to go from college back to elementary school to placate to a bunch of people that don‘t even train in the first place. This is a form of entertainment for them. Most practitioners haven’t even gone through the essential “100 days” of fundamental training to talk of the true things. And if you don’t know what the “100 days” is and you’re teaching, You are most definitely fake because even if you can fight, that’s all you can do. You will never go any higher unless your cup is emptied and you start from the beginning but that’s the fate of the fake.

Besides, the things that you speak of, they can read in any Mag. There are dozens of publications on the topic. How many are on fighting? Too few. Today In the world of martial arts the Internal is a joke that was not the case just 60 yrs ago. Hell, it’s gone from a lone man protecting the Dowenger Empress near the turn of the century to masses of people today practically dancing and waving their hands like clouds. Not if I can help it. Not for you or no one else.

I bare you no malice, but you should ask before you assume. I teach traditionally, and I hold nothing back. But nothing comes before your ready on this there is no compromise. This way assures progress witch is all I’m interested in.

Fighting is something that cannot be overlooked. The men that created these styles were masters that could already control the energy in their bodies. When they created them each technique had a specific type of energy, an energy they were already well experienced in. How does a beginner reach the masters level? By time and experience using the techniques. In other words the form is empty if you don’t know the true way a technique is executed. Physically as well as mentally.

But I’ve gone on a tangent
I’m out
Peace
Maoshan

83

Maoshan

Greetings..

Thank you for clarifying most of the issues.. indeed, i do agree that fighting is the core of Tai Chi.. my only assertion is that there is much more that supports “the fight”..

Why are most practicioners and teachers unable to fight?.. because they haven’t been trained to.. the money wasn’t in training fighters, it was in “feel-good social clubs”.. the villian is greed, pure and simple..

There are many good fighters out there, even in Tai Chi.. but, few demonstrate the mastery attainable through traditional training.. My point is that fighting alone will never produce evidence of Tai Chi prowess, only a combination of many diciplines.. and only then through hard work and dedication.. my fear is that people will read this thread and mistake a reasonably good fighter selling crappy Tai Chi as the real thing.. I want the reader to understand that Tai Chi is a complex and demanding discipline.. a discipline that ultimately produces a quality human being..

I did not read any malice into your replies on this thread.. i think we each respond with the passion we have for the Arts from our individual perspectives.. I am not agressive by nature, but i am capable and traditionally trained (and, i teach that way as well).. I have been accused of being idealistic enough times to assume there must be some truth to it.. so be it.. i am what i am.. Likewise, i intend no malice, just a forum to express my own passion for the arts..

Be well.. be real..