Do Kung Fu guys spend too much time trying to look like Kung Fu guys?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
41

People got too much movies and comics in their mind, sometimes I really wonder how many really do kungfu. I can’t even name much kungfu movies and I don’t really watch movies much because my life is quite filled all the time~!

For me, kungfu is something very natural, and the movements of course are not used “fully” like it is in the forms because we are not robots or characters in the video games. BUT, you can really use the stance, punches and all that in your fighting with no problem if you are trained right instead of having a teacher telling you to “use it like boxing style”. Anyway, it’s really something hard to debate or talk about anyway unless there is real person to person contact demonstration or kungfu discussion, without a pair of hands, there is no way to show it.

So.. it’s just IMO there.

42

[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1092023]LMAO, sorry if I don’t take the advice of a supposed “Celestial Taoist Exorcist Master”. Perhaps you should practice some of these “virtues” you speak about when you are charging idiots who believe in your bogus exorcisms (I still find this hard to believe) to get rid of make believe demons that you and other idiot religious sects make up to prey on the weak and feeble minded.

Nothing in the world cracks me up more than idiot “tradionalists” spouting off about virtues while at the same time ripping off people who don’t know any better.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

You have not tried a durian and so you say it stinks. Those who ate it, say it’s yummy. If one can speak without trying out the real thing, telling people how awful durian taste just by it’s look, they are just naive, idiotic and rude as well. I see no virtues in those people because they are simply just people who talk without real experience, and it all reflects on your personal life, character and also your kungfu as well. Standing two feets on a solid ground is important, it will bring your life more happiness, and you will have less “fire” to blow off.

Again, you have talked in a manner that abuse my profession, it’s rude, if you have not noticed it. I am not saying that I care, but I just want to point that out to you just in case you don’t realize it. You have not tried the durian, don’t judge by it’s look, there are many who ate it before and say it’s yummy already, don’t be so naive and laugh at it like a child.

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[QUOTE=CYMac;1092025]You have not tried a durian and so you say it stinks. Those who ate it, say it’s yummy. If one can speak without trying out the real thing, telling people how awful durian taste just by it’s look, they are just naive, idiotic and rude as well. I see no virtues in those people because they are simply just people who talk without real experience, and it all reflects on your personal life, character and also your kungfu as well. Standing two feets on a solid ground is important, it will bring your life more happiness, and you will have less “fire” to blow off.

Again, you have talked in a manner that abuse my profession, it’s rude, if you have not noticed it. I am not saying that I care, but I just want to point that out to you just in case you don’t realize it. You have not tried the durian, don’t judge by it’s look, there are many who ate it before and say it’s yummy already, don’t be so naive and laugh at it like a child.[/QUOTE]

44

It’s okay if you don’t get my point. But watching too much movies really kills in the path of kungfu. It will be a very bad mindset to have if you are washed by kungfu movies in the 80’s too, too much “traditional schools” (movie style) kind of thinking. But also, the fighting and stuff is bad as well. If you watch too much modern kungfu related movies, you also get into a fantasy land more. So it’s really not a good thing.. too much mind obstacles.

Taste a durian before you comment on it’s taste, or else, that is no different from false speech or rumor, lying, whatever.

IMO.

45

I am not with you on the Durian man. lol.

I am not worried about what it looks like, but you must admit it smells like vomit +dead corpse but is remarkably sweet and juicy.

Just hold your nose when you eat it.

I’d rather have an apple quite frankly. :slight_smile:

46

[QUOTE=CYMac;1092024]People got too much movies and comics in their mind, sometimes I really wonder how many really do kungfu. I can’t even name much kungfu movies and I don’t really watch movies much because my life is quite filled all the time~!

For me, kungfu is something very natural, and the movements of course are not used “fully” like it is in the forms because we are not robots or characters in the video games. BUT, you can really use the stance, punches and all that in your fighting with no problem if you are trained right instead of having a teacher telling you to “use it like boxing style”. Anyway, it’s really something hard to debate or talk about anyway unless there is real person to person contact demonstration or kungfu discussion, without a pair of hands, there is no way to show it.

So.. it’s just IMO there.[/QUOTE]

mmm the structure and energy of western boxing is not different from that required of the boxing arts in tcma.

There is no extra power in kung fu over boxing. They are the same when properly delivered.

Your idea of strange punches is missing something. Unorthodox attacks work for a little while because they are a surprise to someone who is ready to fight in an orthodox manner.

My partner and I have worked with a lot of tcma strikes and stances together and frankly, power development is lost in a lot of techniques.

A side punch from a horse stance has far less power than cross delieverd from a high bow and arrow.

The structure dictates where power will come from. It is in my opinion a pure waste of time to try and develkop power out of a structure that doesn’t facilitate it. THere is a more direct and meaningful path.

If you want to dance, go dance, but if you want to focus on what works combatively, you have to winnow down all the forms and techs and find the very small amount of them that are what are known as high percentage.

the jab (short rapid punch) the cross (the anchored punch), the hook (surprise from the blind side) and the uppercut or piston punch.

These are the medium range punches that have very high percentage of effectiveness. Over and above virtually all other hand attacks and proven over time to be this way.

I can find all these basic powerful strike inside the tcma I practice. It is those that I draw out and focus on with drills and bag work etc.

Kicks is different and again, unusual ones are not generally high percentage.
Shovel kick, shin or knee kicks, push kicks, leg cutters and knees. Again, these are the kicks that are straight to the target, no fancy stuff, no huge energy use lifting yourself into the air etc. Just direct to target and forceful.

the fighting of kung fu should be effective, not fancy. Many have gotten that ass backwards.

47

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1092031]I am not with you on the Durian man. lol.

I am not worried about what it looks like, but you must admit it smells like vomit +dead corpse but is remarkably sweet and juicy.

Just hold your nose when you eat it.

I’d rather have an apple quite frankly. :)[/QUOTE]

Not really, when you get used to or love it, the durian is not smelly, you will say itis very good smelling too. When you have to hold your nose to eat it, it is only because you have not fall in love with it yet. All durian lovers love it so much, even the smell~! It’s good!

Reminds me of how the “gwai lo” cheese are in China people’s eyes before, they all say it stinks and it’s so awful like sh!T, but then, when the Chinese started to like it, they strive for the heavier taste cheese! Pizza then got so common as well. Think about those who laughed at people who eat cheese back then in the old days, they are just naive, and unexposed to the subject. Later on, when it got common, they are the one being laughed at instead. Look, how tasty the cheese and durian are!

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[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1092036]mmm the structure and energy of western boxing is not different from that required of the boxing arts in tcma.

There is no extra power in kung fu over boxing. They are the same when properly delivered.

Your idea of strange punches is missing something. Unorthodox attacks work for a little while because they are a surprise to someone who is ready to fight in an orthodox manner.

My partner and I have worked with a lot of tcma strikes and stances together and frankly, power development is lost in a lot of techniques.

A side punch from a horse stance has far less power than cross delieverd from a high bow and arrow.

The structure dictates where power will come from. It is in my opinion a pure waste of time to try and develkop power out of a structure that doesn’t facilitate it. THere is a more direct and meaningful path.

If you want to dance, go dance, but if you want to focus on what works combatively, you have to winnow down all the forms and techs and find the very small amount of them that are what are known as high percentage.

the jab (short rapid punch) the cross (the anchored punch), the hook (surprise from the blind side) and the uppercut or piston punch.

These are the medium range punches that have very high percentage of effectiveness. Over and above virtually all other hand attacks and proven over time to be this way.

I can find all these basic powerful strike inside the tcma I practice. It is those that I draw out and focus on with drills and bag work etc.

Kicks is different and again, unusual ones are not generally high percentage.
Shovel kick, shin or knee kicks, push kicks, leg cutters and knees. Again, these are the kicks that are straight to the target, no fancy stuff, no huge energy use lifting yourself into the air etc. Just direct to target and forceful.

the fighting of kung fu should be effective, not fancy. Many have gotten that ass backwards.[/QUOTE]

It’s because you misunderstood the use of the side punch with horse stance, of course it’s not effective… sigh..

Using kungfu movements are “fancy”? I don’t think so. It’s just a second nature to a kungfuman, a kungfumwn without movies and comics background.

49

old chinese martial art never talked about horse stance bow stance bullsh1t. it talked about step forward or backward left or right.
this is a big problem in kung fu today where you dont do a specific cat dog pusy stance for a technique you are wrong.

50

[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1091733]In a nutshell, do you feel most CMA practioners worry too much about so called chinese flavor and making their fighting resemble Kung Fu techniques found in forms or other areas as apposed to what many fights or sparring matches end up looking like (glorified kickboxing, of course:D).

In all seriousness I respect very much those that break down techniques from forms, basics, and two man training and apply or at least attempt to apply to a sparring or full contact match. But do you feel it is more beneficial from a fighting aspect to learn simpler basic tecniques that are easier to use? Thoughts?[/QUOTE]

Its more beneficial from a fighting point of view to actually train like you fight and train the way you will fight rather than trying to make fighting fit how you train

You know what I dislike more than people wondering if their kung fu looks like kung fu in a fight…the people who say you must keep the structure and methology of your art in a fight otherwise its just kick boxing but cant post a clip of anyone (let alone themselves) actually doing that

The only full contact fights I can see on this site showing people using their art in action is some baji, some CLF (which looks a lot like kick boxing with wider hooks etc) some lama stuff from Ross which is good and a little bit of chain punching…that’s it

Its sad really

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[QUOTE=CYMac;1092039]It’s because you misunderstood the use of the side punch with horse stance, of course it’s not effective… sigh..

Using kungfu movements are “fancy”? I don’t think so. It’s just a second nature to a kungfuman, a kungfumwn without movies and comics background.[/QUOTE]

lol. You would like to think so. I thought so too, but nope, it is simply not a very effective punch and I can help you to prove it to yourself if you like.

stand at your heavy bag. IN a high bow and arrow, throw a cross at the bag.
Now switch to side facing horse and launch a punch as hard as you can.

report back. :slight_smile:

I don’t misunderstand it at all. I have actually come to a clearer understanding.
There is a huge difference between dueling and fighting, ritual and reality.

All is revealed when you get the mettle to go and check yourself.
Only then can you know for sure.

I’ve taken that step several times and have learned more from my loss and failure than I have from the diligent practice that took me there.

It s very difficult for many people to find out after having invested a lot of time into something to find out that it is not exactly as they had imagined and in some cases, quite the contrary.

Talk is cheap. Deeds define a person more than anything they say or think.
In something so visceral as Kung Fu, there is a lot of room for discovery.

You will have a hard time finding a training partner that you can learn from and teach to. It took me years to find that person. lol

You spend a lot of time doing solo work. It would be to your advantage to get out there and maybe ring a bell or get a bell rung. That piercing sound of the bell will make a lot of things clear. :slight_smile:

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real kung fu doesnt look like kung fu.

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[QUOTE=Frost;1092044]

Its sad really[/QUOTE]

what’s sad is that you limit your outlook to some videos on youtube.
This is a forum, not a proving ground.

lol and that’s why trollshido fails hard.
also, if you think videos are the litmus of it all, why do you not post more of yours and indicate how x vs y = T or some such other meritorious effort from what is otherwise a mere naysayer?

Otherwise, this is a place of words and takeaways.

54

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1092048]what’s sad is that you limit your outlook to some videos on youtube.
This is a forum, not a proving ground.

lol and that’s why trollshido fails hard.
also, if you think videos are the litmus of it all, why do you not post more of yours and indicate how x vs y = T or some such other meritorious effort from what is otherwise a mere naysayer?

Otherwise, this is a place of words and takeaways.[/QUOTE]

I don’t know, maybe a few years ago that argument held water but nowadays you have 100’s of videos of 100’s of different systems all over the web.
Many of them from high ranking MA in their respective systems, many of them from instructionals released by those very masters.

If we are not finding the “real” insert style here then maybe Frost has some sort of point.

55

[QUOTE=bawang;1092041]old chinese martial art never talked about horse stance bow stance bullsh1t. it talked about step forward or backward left or right.
this is a big problem in kung fu today where you dont do a specific cat dog pusy stance for a technique you are wrong.[/QUOTE]

bawang, rescue your mother yet? When did you go back to “old china” and know all these fantastic stuff? Did you get that from sango fighter?

56

Side punch at the heavy bag? now that’s a stupid thing to do. The heavy bag will for sure swing to the stand and hit me back! Don’t be silly dude~!

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[QUOTE=CYMac;1092051]bawang, rescue your mother yet? When did you go back to “old china” and know all these fantastic stuff? Did you get that from sango fighter?[/QUOTE]

im use imaginashun

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[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1092048]what’s sad is that you limit your outlook to some videos on youtube.
This is a forum, not a proving ground.

lol and that’s why trollshido fails hard.
also, if you think videos are the litmus of it all, why do you not post more of yours and indicate how x vs y = T or some such other meritorious effort from what is otherwise a mere naysayer?

Otherwise, this is a place of words and takeaways.[/QUOTE]

not limited to…but empirical evidence would be nice don’t you agree? It would help settle the point more than endless posts no??

Ill post clips of me in action when you do how’s that………….i can show you my grappling in action in sparring and in an actual comp…I look the same in training as I do in comp can you show me the same please?

And I didn’t ask for clips from people on the forum, I asked for any clips…I mean there are thousands of youtube clips of people doing forms, and two man demos etc so its not like TCMA crowd cant use a camera or are adverse to actually putting stuff out there correct? So why can they tape all that stuff but the camera suddenly goes missing when they spar or fight?

I can back up how I feel training should be done with clips of other people doing it that way and then fighting effectively, does my argument diminish because its not me in action? No and backing up your argument with others from your style wouldn’t diminish your points in my eyes

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[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1092050]I don’t know, maybe a few years ago that argument held water but nowadays you have 100’s of videos of 100’s of different systems all over the web.
Many of them from high ranking MA in their respective systems, many of them from instructionals released by those very masters.

If we are not finding the “real” insert style here then maybe Frost has some sort of point.[/QUOTE]

His point is minor at best for many reasons.

  1. not everyone tapes themselves and offers unsolicited instruction in martial arts via youtube.

  2. Of those who do, many perhaps should not.

  3. ego in this regards is often the vehicle of ridiculous failure

So, of all the videos that are out there, what percentage of them actually have value to someone who is training?

A lot of guys make videos, I used to. I stopped. It’s pointless. It is only useful if it is instructional and only when it is coming from a tried and true and tested method, otherwise, the instruction is empty.

Almost NONE of the great fighters in THIS time post videos of their training or sparring or methods. All you see is the result. People make their assumptions off of that.

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[QUOTE=bawang;1092057]im use imaginashun[/QUOTE]

Yeah, that is right, go rescue your mother now then, naughty boy :cool: