[QUOTE=David Jamieson;1083633]You win a cigar and a banana for this observation. :p[/QUOTE]
You have also demonstrated your depth, or lack of, knowledge regarding the distinctions between the internal and external approaches to strength/power and body unity development.
Not that I am surprised, as we live in the Mcdojo era…that means interacting more and more with kung fu clueless people like you is becoming a common occurance.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1083550]HW8 and I have made our peace awhile back, we found a mutual understanding and I have chosen to not only give him the benefit of the doubt in regards to certain things, but I also believe that his views are common in some circles of TCMA and that by addressing his views we are also helping others with the same views.[/QUOTE]
Respects…
[QUOTE=wenshu;1083629]What exactly is so modern about lifting heavy objects for increasing strength?
The only thing that is modern about this is the internal/external distinction.[/QUOTE]
http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95503
Chinese stone lock training archive
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1083641]What I was saying in regards to modern weight lifting, has less to do with the act lifting weights and more to do with the NEW and “scientific” methodologies used in regards to weight training.
[/QUOTE]
Such as?
You offer no concrete examples, only vague dismissals while hiding behind the “closed door” straw man.
You are just talking in circles.
[QUOTE=Violent Designs;1083645]http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95503
Chinese stone lock training archive[/QUOTE]
I wish you could get those in the U.S.
Kettlebells do ok approximating shi suo, but it is just not the same.
I saw some forum post where someone fabricated their own but it was fairly labor intensive.
[QUOTE=Violent Designs;1083645]http://www.martialartsplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=95503
Chinese stone lock training archive[/QUOTE]
You will never defeat Frost’s super duper modern, brand new, Olympic Weight training methods…Ya hear me!!! They are better becaue they are Modern and “scientific”, not like that old kung fu stuff that is out of date!!! Ya hear me!!! The new Western stuff is the best, the old Oriental stuff is out of date…everyone here must train modern Olympic Weight training and then go on to practice BJJ, which is the best art for fighting (and male bonding, apparently:D), Ya hear!!!
The MMA knuckleheads have spoken!!!
[QUOTE=wenshu;1083646]Such as?[/QUOTE]
You should ask that question of Frost who insists that the Modern Weigh training approach is more effective. Ask him what he means by modern?
[QUOTE=wenshu;1083646]You offer no concrete examples, only vague dismissals while hiding behind the “closed door” straw man.[/QUOTE]
I say what I say because they are facts. You not being familiar with such facts does not make them less of a fact!
[QUOTE=wenshu;1083646]You are just talking in circles.[/QUOTE]
Understand the circles and you will understand kung fu (however, I am not holding my breath)…
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1083648] super duper modern, brand new, Olympic Weight training methods…[/QUOTE]
There is a difference between “direct training” and “indirect training”. TCMA likes to use “direct training” approach. Here are some examples for “direct training”.
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1716/singleheadleglift.jpg
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7338/singleheadlegtwist.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7958/canebundle.jpg
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/4936/pulley2.jpg
The following are quoted from someone’s else opinion:
To train the ability to perform a technique requires actually performing that technique. The best way to do that is to do it on a person. If you cannot find a person, find a piece of equipment that closely resembles what you would do with that person (for example, single head weight for leg twist). If you do general (either isolated or full body) resistance training it will make you stronger, but that strength will not necessarily transfer over to the technique you wish to perform.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1083649]Understand the circles and you will understand kung fu (however, I am not holding my breath)…[/QUOTE]
Dude, your non-sequiturs aren’t even any good.
I imagine you feel it is an effective way of dodging the question without having to explicate further upon your vague contrarian delusions of grandeur.
Weight training in kung fu.
It is my understanding that traditionally stone locks and kettle bells were used to train strength in the more external style of kung fu. Many internal schools avoided such training. Even so, they would sometimes test their strength using “weights”. That is when the correct tendon and muscle development was achieved, together with internal body unity, through specific Internal methodologies, then weights were sometimes used to “test” the power and the integrity of the body structure, among other things.
[QUOTE=wenshu;1083656]Dude, your non-sequiturs aren’t even any good.
I imagine you feel it is an effective way of dodging the question without having to explicate further upon your vague contrarian delusions of grandeur.[/QUOTE]
What is your question?
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1083652]There is difference between “direct training” and “indirect training”. TCMA likes to use “direct training” approach. Here are some examples for “direct training”.
http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/1716/singleheadleglift.jpg
http://img844.imageshack.us/img844/7338/singleheadlegtwist.jpg
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7958/canebundle.jpg
http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/4936/pulley2.jpg
[/QUOTE]
YouKnowWho, I was just being ironic with that last post I made regarding the “superiority” of Frost’s modern training.
Also, I can’t access the links. I believe that I need to register in that website first to be able to see the links. I’ll see what I can do.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1083652]To train the ability to perform a technique requires actually performing that technique. The best way to do that is to do it on a person. If you cannot find a person, find a piece of equipment that closely resembles what you would do with that person (single head weight). If you do general (either isolated or full body) resistance training it will make you stronger, but that strength will not necessarily transfer over to the technique you wish to perform.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this. In my humble opinion, there are many different types of resistance exercises, some of which may be more helpful if one needs to perform certain techniques with specific characteristics. That is why I believe that each person should investigate his own chosen art’s approach before investigating other strength/power development methodologies.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1083661]I was just being ironic with that last post I made regarding the “superiority” of Frost’s modern training.[/QUOTE]
I was trying to point out the “intention” of the TCMA weight training. The intention is not trying to build up big muscle but to “enhance” certain skill.
No matter how many reps that you work out on this drill, you won’t be able to build big muscle.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1083663]I was trying to point out the “intention” of the TCMA weight training. The intention is not trying to build up big muscle but to “enhance” certain skill.[/QUOTE]
Oh, I see. Sorry, I misunderstood you before, and yes I agree.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1083663]No matter how many reps that you work out on this drill, you won’t be able to build big muscle.
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7958/canebundle.jpg[/QUOTE]
I am still having trouble accessing these links..
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1083663]I was trying to point out the “intention” of the TCMA weight training. The intention is not trying to build up big muscle but to “enhance” certain skill.
No matter how many reps that you work out on this drill, you won’t be able to build big muscle.
http://img696.imageshack.us/img696/7958/canebundle.jpg[/QUOTE]
The side effect is muscle growth.
Task specific exercises with weight are hugely important to martial artists.
body building is nice, but it doesn’t give the strength of replicated or real farm or fishery work. 
or, in a much more useful sense, throwing dummies, weighted throw drills grapple strength development with chains/ropes/tractor tire
grip strength development with sledge and tire hitting.
carrying exercises for endurance and stamina such as drag a bag, fireman hustle etc.
all this weight lifting is extremely useful to a martial artist because not only do you develop the martial skill, the residual strength will serve you throughout life.
and yes wrestling develops huge strength in a person. there is no denying that as a side effect of grapple work done constantly and consistently.
wreslters that do lift, do so so they can be even stronger on top of that.lol
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1083667]Oh, I see. Sorry, I misunderstood you before, and yes I agree.
I am still having trouble accessing these links..:([/QUOTE]
the links are all shuai jiao equipment training. highlighting that the weight training is in direct connection to the techniques you will be using in your martial art…
thats one of the cool tings about cma…a lot of the weight training is like this.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1083658]Weight training in kung fu.
It is my understanding that traditionally stone locks and kettle bells were used to train strength in the more external style of kung fu. Many internal schools avoided such training. Even so, they would sometimes test their strength using “weights”. That is when the correct tendon and muscle development was achieved, together with internal body unity, through specific Internal methodologies, then weights were sometimes used to “test” the power and the integrity of the body structure, among other things.[/QUOTE]
Instead of desperately seeking a self satisfied sense of superiority by disparaging others viewpoint because they are skeptical and challenge your diffused hearsay definition of Internal Power Generation Body Unity Structure Methodologies, Wang Shifu actually posts concrete examples thereby furthering the discussion through contribution.
That is why shuai jiao is a mf’ing beast.
last time shuai jiao beat mongolian bok was 1800s.
[QUOTE=wenshu;1083688]Instead of desperately seeking a self satisfied sense of superiority by disparaging others viewpoint because they are skeptical and challenge your diffused hearsay definition of Internal Power Generation Body Unity Structure Methodologies, Wang Shifu actually posts concrete examples thereby furthering the discussion through contribution.
That is why shuai jiao is a mf’ing beast.[/QUOTE]
The only desperation here is coming from you as you try and “shoot in the dark” about TCMA methodologies that you have no idea about, and instead of trying to learn about them in an internet forum, you should search for genuine TCMA training and if you are lucky, then in time you may have some exposure to the more “unusual” kung fu methodologies regarding strength and power development and body unity, which currently you have absolutely no knowledge of…
On second thoughts, if you are happy with your own training, then you don’t really need to search for anything else either, but just be respectful to those of us here who have been exposed to other genuine TCMA methodologies…
Thanks in advance…
[QUOTE=Lucas;1083676]the links are all shuai jiao equipment training. highlighting that the weight training is in direct connection to the techniques you will be using in your martial art… [/QUOTE]
That makes a lot of sense and is a very practical approach.
[QUOTE=Lucas;1083676]thats one of the cool tings about cma…a lot of the weight training is like this.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. Whenever there is weight training in a given TCMA style then more often than not it is techniques related, and sometimes, even conditioning related.
Thanks for explaining the links.