[QUOTE=Frost;1083540]The other problem with his logic (if you can call it that) is that he calls it different, superior etc but has no knowledge of the methods he is comparing it to, but then bashes those that do when they talk about it saying they don’t know what they are talking about…oh the irony[/QUOTE]
I don’t recall referring to the internal methodology as superior in this discussion. However, I will say that mastering the the Internal power building/body unity approach may open the door to those kung fu techniques that the MMA modernists refer to as “none-functional”.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1083545]It seems that my “couple of years of (kung fu) training”, has given me a knowledge base that the “kung fu” tagged MMA-ists such as yourself can only dream of…[/QUOTE]
yep because non of us MMA guys have seen or studied hakka arts or internal arts for longer than you have done TMA…
[QUOTE=Frost;1083547]Serious question Ronin, why are you actually asking this question………….why are you bothering[/QUOTE]
HW8 and I have made our peace awhile back, we found a mutual understanding and I have chosen to not only give him the benefit of the doubt in regards to certain things, but I also believe that his views are common in some circles of TCMA and that by addressing his views we are also helping others with the same views.
There are some difference between The way that TCMA guys build muscle. I go to the 24 hours Fitness Center every week. Most of the guys there always ask me how did I build my leg muscle so nicely that most of the body builders don’t even have. It’s hard for me to explain to them. I do horse stance training, 2 men drills training, solo drills training, stretching, single head, long distance running, … I don’t know which training or a mix of all my training gave me my leg muscle shape. Besides the single head and 2 men drills, most of the training that I did was using my own body weight instead of external weight. May be to use your own body weight (such as push up) and to use external weight (such as bench press) can create different kind of muscle.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1083548]I don’t recall referring to the internal methodology as superior in this discussion. However, I will say that mastering the the Internal power building/body unity approach may open the door to those kung fu techniques that the MMA modernists refer to as “none-functional”.;)[/QUOTE]
Do you have anything to offer to the discussion aside from the constant repetition of purposefully oblique references to vague generalizations?
As if apparent obfuscation always presumes depth behind it.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1083553]There are some difference between The way that TCMA guys build muscle. I go to the 24 hours Fitness Center every week. Most of the guys there always ask me how did I build my leg muscle so nicely that most of the body builders don’t even have. It’s hard for me to explain to them. I do horse stance training, 2 men drills training, solo drills training, stretching, single head, long distance running, … I don’t know which training or a mix of all my training gave me my leg muscle shape. Besides the single head and 2 men drills, most of the training that I did was using my own body weight instead of external weight. May be to use your own body weight (such as push up) and to use external weight (such as bench press) can create different kind of muscle.[/QUOTE]
You should know John that the “LOOK” of any muscle is purely genetic.
Regardless of how you train a muscle, its shape is genetic.
Genes also dictate the % of slow and fast twich muscle fibres which will dictate how your muscles react to certain types of ST exercises, that is why some guys get great leg development with high reps ( muscular endurance exercises) and others with low reps.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1083548]Internal power building/body unity approach [/QUOTE]
I do agree hat TCMA has good training in “body unification - all body parts moves and stop at the same time”. Sometime a strong internal stucture just can not be seen from the outside and can only be felt when 2 body make contact.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1083553]There are some difference between The way that TCMA guys build muscle. I go to the 24 hours Fitness Center every week. Most of the guys there always ask me how did I build my leg muscle so nicely that most of the body builders don’t even have. It’s hard for me to explain to them. I do horse stance training, 2 men drills training, solo drills training, stretching, single head, long distance running, … I don’t know which training or a mix of all my training gave me my leg muscle shape. Besides the single head and 2 men drills, most of the training that I did was using my own body weight instead of external weight. May be push up (use your own body weight) and bench press (use external weight) can create different kind of muscle.[/QUOTE]
The issue is not so much different kinds of muscle.
We could get into the whole “type I fast twitch. . .” kinesthetic terminology, but I think the issue is really more related to motor skills/neuromuscular pathway development.
The links are wikipedia, so critical thinking is required, but some sources are listed so. . Open_kinetic_chain_exercises
Someone who can back squat 300 kilos may not be able to do one single leg squat. Despite possessing the raw strength required they may not have developed the skill, balance and flexibility required to do so.
[QUOTE=Frost;1083536]
Of course not because you have the real goods right..funny how you have it but no one else, not david ross, ronin or anyone else has it just you (of course you never actually completed your studies or even actually studied what you talk about in depthbut you know you know it exists ) :)[/QUOTE]
Why bring David Ross, a kick boxing coach, into a discussion involving rare TCMA methodologies.
Well, I guess if you are courageous enough to go way above your head and participate then there is no harm into bringing another MMA-ist into it…LOL!
[QUOTE=Frost;1083549]yep because non of us MMA guys have seen or studied hakka arts or internal arts for longer than you have done TMA…:)[/QUOTE]
If you had REALLY studied the Hakka arts to a high level, then you would not be doing MMA now, except as a hobby perhaps, but even that would be unlikely…
You Frost, have really no idea of the depth of these arts!
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1083546]Since you don’t know enough about them ( modern ST protocols), how can you say that?[/QUOTE]
I am basing what I said from what I have been told by people with experience on the two sides.
Perhaps you can help me with a query. Lets say a man has done all the external modern ST exercises that need to be done to maximize his strength, including the relevant weight training exercises, for 10 years, none stop. Then he suddenly stops doing absolutely any type of exercises. How long before he looses his muscle mass and the related strength? One year? Two Years? I have been told that usually in one year or so a lot of muscle mass starts to disappear, if memory serves me correctly. I am asking this question because I am genuinely interested.
Of course, I appreciate that there are other factors to take into consideration, for example, individual genetics, diets, etc.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1083559]I do agree hat TCMA has good training in “body unification - all body parts moves and stop at the same time”. Sometime a strong internal stucture just can not be seen from the outside and can only be felt when 2 body make contact.[/QUOTE]
Agreed. The problem is explaining this to people whose only point of reference, as far as strength and power building is concerned, is Olympic Weight Training methodologies. Such people see “the new” as the “best”, and the Traditional as “out of date” and “useless”.
People who are like this, are missing a lot of TCMA treasures…
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1083614]I am basing what I said from what I have been told by people with experience on the two sides.
Perhaps you can help me with a query. Lets say a man has done all the external modern ST exercises that need to be done to maximize his strength, including the relevant weight training exercises, for 10 years, none stop. Then he suddenly stops doing absolutely any type of exercises. How long before he looses his muscle mass and the related strength? One year? Two Years? I have been told that usually in one year or so a lot of muscle mass starts to disappear, if memory serves me correctly. I am asking this question because I am genuinely interested.
Of course, I appreciate that there are other factors to take into consideration, for example, individual genetics, diets, etc.[/QUOTE]
It would depend on diet and activity level.
Muscle mass increase is ONE type of ST protocol.
Depending on what people use it for ( and the crap they may put into their bodies) it can be quite dramatic ( as in the case of drug laddened pro bodybuilders) to barely noticible as in the case of the majority of ST athletes.
I took 6 months off once and lost almost no muscle mass and only about 10% of my strength and even at that level, it was higher than the average person.
That said, people that tend to train for MASS well have their mass decrease or be replaced by fat if they don’t adjust their eating habits.
Remember:
Isokinetics, isometrics are also ST protocols.
[QUOTE=wenshu;1083554]Do you have anything to offer to the discussion aside from the constant repetition of purposefully oblique references to vague generalizations?[/QUOTE]
It seems vague to you because you are unfamiliar with the methodolgies discussed. Those who have trained it will know instantly what I am talking about.
Having said that, I will also state that detailed references to outsiders are discouraged by schools that practice some these methodologies. This may sound corny to you, but you can take it, or leave it…
[QUOTE=wenshu;1083554]As if apparent obfuscation always presumes depth behind it.[/QUOTE]
No matter how this subject matter is discussed, it will have no barings on the valid profoundness of these methodologies!
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1083550]HW8 and I have made our peace awhile back, we found a mutual understanding and I have chosen to not only give him the benefit of the doubt in regards to certain things, but I also believe that his views are common in some circles of TCMA and that by addressing his views we are also helping others with the same views.[/QUOTE]
lol.
I on the other hand placed him on ignore.
You know, what with the batcrap crazy assertions over and over again.
[QUOTE=wenshu;1083629]What exactly is so modern about lifting heavy objects for increasing strength?[/QUOTE]
You seem to be new to the martial arts. What I was saying in regards to modern weight lifting, has less to do with the act lifting weights and more to do with the NEW and “scientific” methodologies used in regards to weight training.
[QUOTE=wenshu;1083554]The only thing that is modern about this is the internal/external distinction.[/QUOTE]
I would hazard a guess that the distinction was made to enlighten those who were not aware of the existance of the Internal methodologies, which wether you like it or not, exist and are distinct from the external ones. Hence this discussion…
