There is different various bong sau in chum kil. I would say about 50% of the chum kil form is bong sau. Do we understand all its application, usage and why so many bong sau?
-thanks
[QUOTE=funsau;1054439]There is different various bong sau in chum kil. I would say about 50% of the chum kil form is bong sau. Do we understand all its application, usage and why so many bong sau?
-thanks[/QUOTE]
Not rue. IMO
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=funsau;1054439]There is different various bong sau in chum kil.
-thanks[/QUOTE]
Not true.
GH
[QUOTE=funsau;1054439]There is different various bong sau in chum kil. I would say about 50% of the chum kil form is bong sau. Do we understand all its application, usage and why so many bong sau?
-thanks[/QUOTE]
WCK is not about “understanding”. Asking about “understanding” is meaningless, it is nonsensical.
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1054548]WCK is not about “understanding”. Asking about “understanding” is meaningless, it is nonsensical.[/QUOTE]
Irony at its best. 
It sounds like the OP is simply asking what Bong is for and why we see it–where we see it in CK…
If you don’t understand what Bong is for then certainly it’s a reasonable question..
Ok then Bong Sau is to open the way for the punch should it be required. Only one Bong Sau in Ving Tsun 
[QUOTE=Graham H;1054558]Ok then Bong Sau is to open the way for the punch should it be required. Only one Bong Sau in Ving Tsun ;)[/QUOTE]
Wrong in both assertions.
[QUOTE=YungChun;1054557]It sounds like the OP is simply asking what Bong is for and why we see it–where we see it in CK…
If you don’t understand what Bong is for then certainly it’s a reasonable question..[/QUOTE]
If you told him what a bong sao was “for”, would he then “understand” it?
And what does “for” mean (what you can do with it, how it fits into the overall method, etc.)?
What does “understand” even mean in the context of WCK?
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1054563]If you told him what a bong sao was “for”, would he then “understand” it?
And what does “for” mean (what you can do with it, how it fits into the overall method, etc.)?
What does “understand” even mean in the context of WCK?[/QUOTE]
Well you’ve made it clear that you don’t think most understand (know) the method…
I have no doubt that many have questions that relate to it and I think this is one of them.. When you read posts that talk about seeking knowledge or understanding I submit it simply means they are asking these questions the only way they know how..
How can I (best) use this tool?
What does it do?
Etc..
Same thing applies to the method overall imo.
I think it just comes back to the gun.. If they don’t have it then they are looking for parts and how to assemble it… Not everyone is ready for the advanced class..
[QUOTE=YungChun;1054565]Well you’ve made it clear that you don’t think most understand (know) the method…
[/QUOTE]
No, I don’t think most people in WCK have LEARNED (been SHOWN) the method.
I have no doubt that many have questions that relate to it and I think this is one of them.. When you read posts that talk about seeking knowledge or understanding I submit it simply means they are asking these questions the only way they know how..
How can I (best) use this tool?
What does it do?
Etc..
Same thing applies to the method overall imo.
I think it just comes back to the gun.. If they don’t have it then they are looking for parts and how to assemble it… Not everyone is ready for the advanced class..
Yes, I appreciate that is what they are doing. I think it is the wrong way to go about it.
I will give him the answer: the bong sao is to destroy the opponent’s structure.
Now, does he “understand” or “know” even though I gave him the answer?
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1054573]
I will give him the answer: the bong sao is to destroy the opponent’s structure.
Now, does he “understand” or “know” even though I gave him the answer?
[/QUOTE]
lol
No, but he might be a tiny bit closer.. 
And with some elaboration he might even get closer…
[QUOTE=t_niehoff;1054573]
I will give him the answer: the bong sao is to destroy the opponent’s structure.
[/QUOTE]
No its f***ing not!!! How can Bong Sau destroy somebodies structure you muppett???..Oh I forgot…you spend all your time hanging off peoples arms with your “attached” WCK :D:D:D:rolleyes:
Terence I’m glad I don’t practice your system of WCK because in the months I’ve been on here I haven’t read anything apart from BS in your posts.
GH
T
Can you list all your Bong Sau’s and how they all destroy structure?? :rolleyes:
GH
There is High, Mid and Low bong-sao. I have seen people crash with bong sao, Not simply disolve or pivot..
Bong -Sao is the shape, the structure, not the usage. Usage is dictated by circumstance,
and your own understanding.
..and your Sifu.
Yo!
T is correct.
If you catch with a Bong - you will get destroyed
In my opinion it is even worse to pivot with a bong.
Using bong in this way makes it a 2 beat technique like block then strike versus linked block and strike. Against someone who is throwing high speed combination you are always playing catch up unless you can jam up his strike, break his structure and in some applications turn him off line it is going nowhere fast for you.
Shifting or pivoting against someone with any skill at putting continuous changing pressure in their bridge will also leave you vulnerable because of both timing and positioning issues as well as the lack of structure most people have after the shift. It leaves you vulnerable in my opinion.
In my experience Bong has to intercept and crush the structure with the exception of Hok Bong (I may be using a bad term here). It can be used in many applications but at its core its all the same Bong Sao.
Dave
[QUOTE=Dave McKinnon;1055003]
In my opinion it is even worse to pivot with a bong.
[/quote]
And yet bang there it is multiple times in the forms..
[QUOTE=Dave McKinnon;1055003]
Shifting or pivoting against someone with any skill at putting continuous changing pressure in their bridge will also leave you vulnerable because of both timing and positioning issues as well as the lack of structure most people have after the shift. It leaves you vulnerable in my opinion.
[/quote]
Using this logic that “folks shouldn’t use it because they don’t have structure” then it follows that they shouldn’t use anything for the same reason..
Bottom line is that if you don’t use it when you need to you will be in trouble…
Yo!
Jim
When I pivot in the forms there is the intent to crush into and compress the opponents structure. What most people do in the form and in application is not that. Besides the forms are not the application.
The difference is not the shift it is the intention and application. I don’t believe that good WCK involves sifting in place, away from or around an attack.
As T said “the bong sao is to destroy the opponent’s structure.”
[QUOTE=Dave McKinnon;1055034]Jim
When I pivot in the forms there is the intent to crush into and compress the opponents structure. What most people do in the form and in application is not that. Besides the forms are not the application.
The difference is not the shift it is the intention and application. I don’t believe that good WCK involves sifting in place, away from or around an attack.
As T said “the bong sao is to destroy the opponent’s structure.”[/QUOTE]
You can’t do that in the form, as you said the form is not application…
You seemed to make a case against turning in general.. Who can do what is an aside..
[QUOTE=YungChun;1055016]And yet bang there it is multiple times in the forms..
[/QUOTE]
The shift/turning is used to destroy structure.