It seems a few of the families out there have differing ideas on bong sau (at least at the visual level), so:
- What is the “nature” of your bong sau?
- What is your bong sau used for?
- What does your bong sau look like?
- How do you train your bong sau?
hmmm.
o.k. first let me state i hate bong sau , since it is a passive action
-
What is the “nature” of your bong sau?
not sure what you mean by nature please give a example -
What is your bong sau used for?
to bend or guide [ creates a new angle ], not to keep or apply force .it’s an action on the way to another action never a static position -
What does your bong sau look like?
if used correctly you shouldn’t even see it , and it is adaptible so it’s apperience my vary , is my opponent 6 feet tall or 4 feet tall -
How do you train your bong sau?
i try not to since it is a passive action whick means if i have to bong i either got caught off gaurd , or i did something wrong
that’s why i don’t get the whole i can support 5oo pounds on my bong , yea so ? this accomplishes nothing but freezing you in a bad position .
i try not to since it is a passive action whick means if i have to bong i either got caught off gaurd , or i did something wrong
For example here is a scenario in which I have to use bong:-
I train with a guy quite a bit bigger than me and we take turns throwing non-WC attacks.
- I see him twitch with his right arm
- I move straight forward with my hands in front of me
- He tries to straight cross me in the face
- My left arm which I am attempting to wedge with and still deliver a punch feels too much pressure.
I have to either small side step right and change my left arm wedge into a fook, changing my angle slightly
OR
Bong with my left and move to my left, his outside, or maybe behind.
I’m not clear why you would consider using the bong as always the result of a mistake. Maybe you’re much faster than me and the failure you’re referring to is one of visual perception and reaction rather than WC itself. I’d certainly agree the bong in most cases should be considered as a frustrated attack but that’s not quite the same as saying it indicates that I did something wrong.
Can you explain a bit more about where you’re coming from here.
I agree that bong sao is a potentially dangerous recovery technique and should be avoided where possible. I do not agree that it should be used to slip hands. My ideal bong sao is a disruptive counterattack towards the opponent’s core.
king m.
sure i’ll explain but , yep i’m fast and sensitive so i don’t ever really need to wedge , unless i’m purposely training something in chi sau.
if you don’t mind i’ll break down your example in my eyes but i’m in no way trying to be disrespectful…
[[[ 1) I see him twitch with his right arm
2) I move straight forward with my hands in front of me
----- if he try’s to set up i intercept him , if he twiches 1. i let him get to close and in a position the he could set up a attack.
2. i never move striaght forward into a attack i take slight angles , i never meet force on force or go nose to nose and trade blows , i have no desire to find out how strong that person is nor do i have any desire to see how much of that force my structure can take , footwork elieviates all these problems .
-
He tries to straight cross me in the face
---- fine i either split the limb sectors inside and outside with a counter hit and control factor, while i slip to the outside . either way i should have shell shocked him with my first action if i didn’t i should already be fireing my second action and in a new position ‘’ again not nose to nose ‘’ -
My left arm which I am attempting to wedge with and still deliver a punch feels too much pressure.
---- i don’t wedge so i can’t comment on this feeling but if your wedgeing your being passive , if your being passive he can hit you , or your losing oppertunities and time
think of it this way everytime you latch on to some force and stick to it with your structure you are in turn trapping yourself . and everytime you commit a action that is not gaining you position ,or space or time , meaning you are following his action you are one step behind .
i want him reacting to me i don’t want to be reacting to him .
so if something gets in my way i simply let it go . i don’t try to capture and manipulate it .
i hope that i didn’t confuse you more
Thx Ernie, you’ve given me some stuff to think about…
err without wishing to appear slow could you elaborate on
“split the limb sectors inside and outside with a counter hit and control factor” 
king m.
no problem
there are 5 sectors you can work off when it comes to limbs not introducing high’s and lows
-both hands on the out side of the incoming shot , [ both hands on top ]
-one hand on the outside one hand on the inside of the limb [ spliting the sectors ] for example the striaght right comes in your head slips to the outside of the right punch , you right hand fires at the same time down center right into his grill.
your rear hand [wu sau] moniters the out side of his right cross incase it changes into a elbow shot or what ever.
you need foot work and timing and feel to pull this off , you move in but at a slight angle you feel the angle from the wu sau that is monitering his attack hand . if you timing is good after you crack him you can drive his right hand your monitiering right back acoss his face slightly up so he can’t bring his elbow down or reface you and just have a party on the exposed side of the body .
– both hands inside - you have to be quck here your facing all his weapons .
– and the other 2 secors are the same thing but on the other limb .
does that help
Good posts, guys. Let come back to the origin of the Bong species in the Kuen Kuits.
In Bon Sau the forearm inclines, the wrist is on the center line, and the fingers droop
The three terrors of WC are Tan Sau, Bong Sau, and Fok Sau
Bong Sau must not remain.
Sticking to opponent while shifting hand position shows good control of situation. Being stuck to by opponent while attempting to shift your own hand position cannot produce the intended result.
Regards,
re bong sau
hi guys, i aggee with earnie, don"t use bong sau , all the timme jut sau defeats , it and you could get trapped, use it when the time is right i also, like the jamming bong sau when you can use it peace russell sherry
See comments in brackets
o.k. first let me state i hate bong sau , since it is a passive action
( not quite- dynamic context makes a big difference))
In Bon Sau the forearm inclines, the wrist is on the center line, and the fingers droop
((droop? aint necessarily so))
I agree that bong sao is a potentially dangerous recovery technique and should be avoided where possible.
((not any more dangerous than fok or tan- depends on context)
Ahh I see.
The terminology threw me for a sec.
Yeah nice to do that I also like it with the right doing a neck strike/cinch and takedown.
the striaght right comes in your head slips to the outside of the right punch , you right hand fires at the same time down center right into his grill.
I’ve found slipping exposes you to attacks that makes it difficult to recover from if struck. I agree that this is a pretty devastating move, and against a lot of people it does work. However when you try this on someone who knows how to expose it’s weakness…it can be devastating in a way that can finish the fight rather quickly.
that’s why you have to have good footwork timing and speed ,plus the the monitering hand pressures center and shuts down his counter action , but there is always a way to beat something still much more effecient the trying to use a bong sau
Good that you also notice, Joy. It did bother me a bit on the fingers drooping. Mine are mostly pointing to his center. Since I don’t like tampering the sacred kuen kuit to suit my subversive agenda, I just let it speak as it is without comments. Also it is correct when you do the low bong, and drooping could mean many things like relaxation or natural. So all well that ends well. Let not the bong lingers too long in your heart and mind. Ha! Ha!
Regards,
Generally I find the low bon sao to have more uses and be more useful than the high bon sao.
JMO
Bong sau is as essential to Wing Chun as tan or fook.
BTW, you don’t decide to “try” a technique in Wing Chun. It should happen depending on too many variables to enumerate here.
Fajing-
you may be underestimating the full repertoire of bong sao.
Lets not forget that the bong sau is one of ‘Eight Hands of Wing Chun’.
There is a reason for that to be and would be unwise of practitioners to discard / neglect it. The kuen kuit and things of like were thought up from very competent WC masters. There’s a reason for it to be there. Do you neglect a certain mathematical theory or equation simply because you already know another that could solve a particular problem? If you do, then you’re simply aiming to pass the exam and not excel in the subject.
It is human nature to keep to things that we’re good at and dislike those that we are unfamiliar. How many footballers/sportsmen that are competent all-rounders?
Originally posted by saulauchung
[B]
If you do, then you’re simply aiming to pass the exam and not excel in the subject.
[/B]
Well said!..
wow look at all the bong sau junkies ,
i thought the origin of this post was to describe you lines bong sau , and the uses of bong sau for all the bong sau junkies , that are out there killing the world with this passive action , i don’t see any examples , were the bong is superior to any other action that i don’t may actually hurt some one …
to each there own but to me it sounds like a bunch of old teacher’s that have vested all this time in this action and taught all these people this action and have to make it work and prove the time they spent …
i guess if your really slow and have no foot work sensitivity or timing you might find yourself useing the bong sauin stead of actually hitting some one . but come on out side of chi sau , it should rarely come up . but then if chi sau is all you ever do then i can see your point .