Looking_ up
Sorry I haven’t responded sooner.
I’m about to put this whole thing to bed. I‘ve had enough.
First, The fact that Park is on the tomb can’t be disputed. But, why he’s on the tomb is another story all together.
To begin, Li Ching Wu Born in 1864 died? Lets look at that. According to his book, Park says that Lu Shui tien Learned from him for many years when he died. How is that he does not at least know the year that he past. Makes no since. Who did Li learn from? He’s acknowledged nowhere.
In fact, Let’s hypothesize this: Li was born in 1864. Dong Hai chuan Began to teach in Beijing about 1864 and taught only Shaolin outwardly until 1876 when he accepted Cheng Ting Hua. Dong died in 1882. Let’s give Li 20yrs,that would make it 1884.
He would have had to be one of the first students to have studied with one of the Big 4, In order of seniority: Yin Fu, Ma Wei Qi, Shi Ji Dong and, Cheng Ting Hua. His name would most definitely been mentioned If he had reached a high level.
But continuing in the first vein, how don’t you know when your teacher died.
Next, It is also mentioned in the book that after Li died, Lu sought out a teacher from the 4th generation of Dong’s lineage. First there’s only Dong Hai Chuan. No other Ba-Gua Exist out side of Him. Back to the point, He mentioned that he didn’t know who his second teacher was. How is that possible? And if that is true, how could he be on the tomb? How do you know your lineage? The Yin Family acknowledges Lu Shui Tien so they must know whom he was taught by. And it was not by He Jin Kui. My research shows that Lu’s instructor was Lu Shu Kui, He Jin Kui’s top student. The question is how long did Lu Shui Tien learn from Lu shu Kui?
Parks System is not practiced in Beijing. All Yin Practitioners when asked about it. After looking at the video, they say it is not Yin Fu. It looks like a Hybrid method of Cheng style. Which as a practitioner of Cheng style for 17yrs and a Yin Practitioner for the last 8 I can attest to that. If Park knows Yin style ya’ll are not learning it. My brother and me thought it was Cheng style until someone said it was Yin. Only the Lion posture from parks Mother Palms looks like Yin the rest is Cheng.
Now look. I personally have nothing against Park but you guys put it out there. I look to find the best. The statements made here on line are false; the origin tale has to many holes. The practitioners we’ve met are quit weak in strength and technique. If your gonna come than come right. Hell if park is that tuff than I want to learn from him. But his representation does not speck well of his teaching at all and that’s on you guys. Besides how can you get good when you don’t see him that much? Another problem.
Back to the tomb,
Dong Hai Chuan’s Tomb Was moved from Beijing to Wen An, his home town, in 1981-82 it was at that time that park and his teacher were put on it. How is it that the book, written in the 90’s, a minimum of 10 yrs has past and you don’t know the name of Lu’s teacher? Come on. No one is that stupid. Lu shui Tien was a student of Lu shu kui and perhaps a family member that does not merit him being put on the tomb. The names that are there are significant in that they are either successors or contributors. Which is Lu Shui tien? Do your research.
Kyle:
(Several of the practitioners mentioned that they thought Lu Shui-Tien’s second teacher had studied with Yin Fu’s son-in- law,He Chin-Kuei.
While this has not being confirmed,it will make sense that one or both of Lu’s teachers were of the Yin Fu lineage because much of the Pa Kua Chang that he taught is very characteristic of the Yin Fu Style).
Where are these characteristics? Pray tell
Have you seen other Yin fu stylist?
("Today the name Lu Shui-Tien is well known among the practitioners of the Yin Fu lineage.)
Who are you talking about? Off hand I can only think of three true yin stylists In America with pure lineage. They don’t acknowledge Park’s system. The 4 I know in Beijing won’t even hold a conversation about it other than “ that’s not Yin Style”.
Ghundi:
Why are you bothering me again? At every point I’ve delt with you. Concerning these topics. Don’t you get it yet? This is not a hobby for me. This is what I do. Research, Fight, train Period.
My knowledge of the history of Ba-Gua is extensive but I’m not infallible. What I wrote came from memory, being that I don’t have access to my whole library at this time. And what does it matter anyway? Am I wrong? If so how? Show me where.
Ma:
(Chang chuan and Ba Ji are not Ba-Gua forms, they are Shaolin.)
Kyle:
(Where does it say that Lu Shui Tien DID NOT KNOW HIS SECOND TEACHER OR WHEN THE FIRST DIED.)
On page 10
(Even from the “well known” lineages,it is impposible to know how much info Yin FU or Dong Hai Chuan or Cao passed on to his students or how much they mixed it with other arts)
Dong passed on his system, that’s what he wanted. Yin learned and taught what he learned from Dong Hai Chuan, which was Lohan and the Style he created from it. Cao Zhong Sheng only learned Ba-Gua and that is all he taught.
(So even if the principles and the expresion still looks unfamiliar to you,why denied it?,why not accept it as something different.)
All Ba-Gua shares the same principles. All Yin stylists have the same characteristics the same exist with the cheng style. Park is out side of the Yin school with no sameness. Explain that. A Car cannot be a Truck and a Rhino can’t be a Rabbit, Explain your point.
(but to question the background of a teacher with real skills without any logical basis or proof is not honorable sir.)
That’s not true; First and foremost his student put him out here to be questioned. Second, You judge the quality of the teacher by the students. Well our people have crossed hands and the teaching method to us leaves much to be desired. And that’s the truth. And there’s other things as well such as, you’re a Ba-Gua practitioner, how is it that your doing Ba-Ji at a tournament? Yes I question that teacher. That’s Bull$hit. I pay to learn Ba-Gua that’s what I expect to be doing at a tournament. If I’m not good enough yet than I’ll have to wait and keep practicing. Come on man. What are you saying? That’s like a Hung-Ga practitioner entering a tournament and doing Mantis, which he learned from the Hung-Ga school. Ridiculous.
(It is in your personal agenda and for unknown reasons to try to discredit Park and his school on this forum spreading false information.)
No. It’s the other way around. We just want truth and what we get is just a bunch of crap. Somebody do the research. We have no vendetta against park but the way his Reps put him out here against people who know better what do you expect? We’re not politicians we’re martial Artist with the goal to promote Ba-Gua as it was handed down, not as someone wants to see it.
