This is for any of parks student’s
where is the stele that Lu Shui tien and park are mentioned, located in the Tomb? and, is it the 5th stele to be erected?
Maoshan
Not sure exactly where it is off the top of my head, but it’s at Dong Hai Chung’s burial site in China. I’m sure if you just send an e-mail to the school, they will respond. Not much is really made about that in class. I would have never known if I didn’t get his book.
According to Park’s Website
As a testament to his authenticity, Park Bok-Nam’s name appears on a stele that was erected at the burial site of Dong Hai-Chuan* in China (see picture at right), formally documenting him as a true sixth generation lineage disciple. We are aware of no other Pa Kua practitioner in the U.S. that has this distinction.
The picture on the page shows the stele on a stone outside the tomb. I presume it is in the present location as opposed to the original.
*disclaimer: I know you know I am not one of Parks students.
Yo, I was at Dong’s Tomb area this year, And I didn’t see any stele that Lu Shui tien and park are mentioned. I have taking many pictures of many of the Pa Kua Zhang masters tomb stone that were there.
And park So Called tomb stone was no where to be find in Dong’s tomb stone area.
Yo Maoshan You know I’m the Ba Gua Zhang FBI…LOL When I get time I’ll put the pictures up on my web site of Dong’s Tomb site as it is today, and you see for yourself there is no Park Tomb Stone in any part of the area. Most of the people in dong’s tomb area are mostly Liang Zhen Pu and Li Zi Ming people (students) that have tomb stones.
Yo, Here one for you, Yin Fu don’t even have a tomb stone in Dong’s Tomb area.
Mostly there are Cheng Ba Gua practitioners and Li Zi Ming people that are mentioned. There are few Yin Style practitioners mentioned.
blacktaoist,
The link I gave above shows the stone right next to Dong’s tomb. If you open the picture in another window, it is larger so you can actually read it. It clearly says Park’s name. Are you saying that the pictures on the site are fake?
Many names were added later because people gave money to help move the tomb. I can’t believe Yin Fu would not be there since he spent more time with Dong than anyone else. I guess it’s all about money.
The link I gave above shows the stone right next to Dong’s tomb. If you open the picture in another window, it is larger so you can actually read it. It clearly says Park’s name. Are you saying that the pictures on the site are fake?
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Yo Count Like I said I was in Dong’s tomb area This year, and park so called tomb stone WAS NOT THERE!!! NO WHERE TO BE FIND!!! like I said when I get time I put the pictures up of dong’s tomb area as it is today on my web site, that way you can see for yourself. Copy -paste work is what I think.
I can’t believe Yin Fu would not be there since he spent more time with Dong than anyone else. I guess it’s all about money.
BELIEVE IT! because what I said his true, Yin Fu don’t have a Tomb stone in Dong’s tomb area. :o
Yo Count I just look at all my picture’s Of Dong’s Tomb site, It seems that park’ do have a tomb stone there at Dong’s Tomb site. Park tomb stone is behind Li Zi Ming tomb stone. in a area where people that have donated money for the restoration of Tung’s tomb or just paid money for their stone stele at dong’s burial site. They even have a japanese Ba Gua practitioner stone stele. Count any one that have money and can pay two hundred thousand Yang, Can put a stone stele at Dong’s burial site, even you or myself if we have that kind of money.
The link I gave above shows the stone right next to Dong’s tomb.
Count picture of Park’s stone is next to the tomb tower, not dong’s tomb which is way in tne front. The tomb tower is the back area of dong’s tomb site. the area where they put people stone who pay money or donated money. That area have nothing to do with formally documenting him as a true sixth generation lineage disciple of any of Dong’s lineage’s or Yin Fu’s.
Taoist,
You ever stop by Park’s group in NY? If so, what do you think?
Blacktaoist
Agreed!
Be sure to let us know when you have posted some pictures of your trip.
You ever stop by Park’s group in NY? If so, what do you think?
Ford I never stop by of any of Park’s Group’s in NY. But I have met many people that studied we him or people that are so called formal disciples of his Ba gua Zhang method.
I have no opinion of Park’s fighting skill yet, because I never crosshands with the man. So my only opinion can only be base on the tapes of him I saw. And from what I saw of the footage of his demonstration of Ba Gua Zhang, I don’t see why many of his students talk like Park is the God Father of the Ba Gua Zhang world!! I saw nothing ultimate or extraordinary about park performing Ba Gaua On his tapes. Most of the so called Pa Kua drills he was doing on his fundamental Ba Gua tape are common in many other kung fu styles, there is nothing in my opinion remarkable about what park teach.
As for my opinion about his people that studied with him, I never spar any of his top student, But I love to anyday or anytime. The only people I met were a few of Park formal disciples students, and these guys had no skill at all. I never met anyone from Park Ba Gua camp that can fight or utilize Ba Gua zhang in freefighting. Park may be good , But the people from his school in my opinion can’t fight, So Ford this is way I have no need to stop by any of Park’s groups in New York.
It be a big waste of my time, they have nothing I want to learn from them or even exchange martial art information. These guys don’t even know or practice The Ba Gua method of push hands.
So my opinion of Park’s method is not a good one. But hey thats just my viewpoint, you may like his way of teaching Ba Gua Zhang. 
Count I"ll let you know when I put the Dong Hai tomb site photos up. That way you see that there are new tomb stones at his tomb site, and you see parks stone is way in the back, Hard to see even in real life.
Taoist,
Thanks for the honest reply. Out of curiousity, where do you study?
ford I study with many teachers, But I have three main Yin style Ba Gua Zhang teachers that I’m training with at this time, my first Yin teacher is Chen XiaoPing of queens NY., and the other two is Zhang Lie, and Master Xu shi Xi of beijing China Who I now will train with every other year.
I also train under Li tai Liang in Cheng style Ba Gua Zhang and Sifu roosevelt Gainey in Ba Gua Zhang Nei Gung and combat methods.
But what I practice most is Yin style Ba Gua Zhang.
So you don’t like Ba Gua then I take it…
LOL:D Lads…Lads… Ever thought of an Anti-park web site? after all he is satan reborn!! :rolleyes:
I was at the tomb
I was at the Tomb imyself. We have pictures and video footage dealing with the translation of the tomb itself. What I learn was anybody was capable of putting their name on a tomb or the own slab as well. To prove that point Yin Fu was not a main feature at the tomb. Liang Zhen Pu and Li Zi Ming lineage was the big crew that is all over that tribute area as TBT highlighted in the earlier post.
What does this say to me? That politics was an influence in that Tomb. It’s about money over proper (or what I might deem as proper) lineage description.
Concerning the original question about Sifu Park’s name on the “stele” for those that are interested in Pa Kua to make a journey there and see. I didn’t go to the tomb to worry about any particular person name on tombs or not. I went to learn and be in the presence of a great martial artist energy and burial site. What I got out of it is a big history lesson that any Pa Kua practitioner should go and see for themselves. Books and pictures can be used to tell the author’s story and not necessarily the true story. Moslems go to Mecca, Catholics go to the Vatican, and Pa Kua practitioners should go to Beijing to see the tomb.
Very Good Razak.
Thats the way it should be. but it’s hard to go to beijing for most.
And let’s not forgetn that you do have to go with a reconized representitive. other than that you can’t get in.
As far as park goes, in my opinion, his people scream about the fact that park is the only american practitioner with his name on the tomb, as if that makes them lineage holders or something. well, as my classmate has pointed out clearly, The contribution section and the Lineage section have nothing to do with each other. Now that that’s dead maybe they’ll work harder on making that delusion into a reality through hard core training.
Now Yin,
It’s deffenitly foul.
The problem is the Yin family today is poor so when it came time to contribute they couldn’t help, and because of that, Yin wasn’t placed with Cheng who we know taught the most students so of course he would have the largest contributors.
However, Li Zi Ming’s Ba-Gua is a combo of Cheng and Yin style.
so in a small way yin is honored.
But when you think, that Yin was the first and Top student and they wouldn’t put his name, even in mention, on the tomb.
and to show you how far they’ve gone, they even took down the original stele that named the first 56 of Dong’s 72 students.
That, I don’t understand at all.
Why?
Oh Well…
Maoshan
You know what else I learn?
I learned a lot going to Beijing for the second time - Maoshan. I learn that some of the Pa Kua practitioners seem to be more practical then our fellow Pa Kua practitioners in the states. Whereas in the states, some of my Pa Kua brothers are fixed on the mystical side of the art to help with the combat side. In Beijing, they don’t mix both sides together. If you going to use it for fighting then its about fighting. If you use it for show then you are doing forms - thats it. Discussions of the I-Ching or other books dealing with philosophy or metaphysics aren’t entertained. Now again for the record I not met all of the Beijing practitioners but after going twice I’ve seen a lot of things. Believe me whatever TBT is putting on the website or on this forum is very small compare with the information we’ve gathered even from last years trip!!!
Maoshan, we haven’t talked for awhile put I wish you good luck in setting up the tournament. In NYC everybody is talking it very seriously.
trying hard to figure out how to say this…
I have information from sources whom I trust about Park.
Basically, the story as I have heard it is this:
He did train for a long time with the old man…he is a good fighter. He is not the most senior student by a long shot. A lot of what he puts forth as a “biography” is bogus. What he teaches in the US is “genuine” bagua, but it is far from complete, and the other students of Lu Shui Tien in Korea know this. Most of it is basic exersices. He does not know or teach the Southern Mantis that his teacher practiced and taught to the other high ranked students.
There was more that I was told but I have forgotten some of the details…
Hey Razak
Sounds like you had a great trip and saw some really good bagua. Heard you saw some bad too. I hope you will write and share more about your trip. Haven’t seen you around the forums lately. Nice to hear from you. If you have some time, tell us about some of the training you got there?
Great post Maoshan. In my mind Li Ziming was one of the greatest bagua minds ever. But most people wouldn’t see that connection as an honering of Yin Fu. I always thought Gong Bao Tien had some money. I wonder why he never did anything for his teacher? Oh well, I think Yin Fu had aver 20 direct students who went on to teach. You’d think at least one would step up?