Young Mantis: thanks for that!
Now if I remember right, Sifu Lee mentioned the name in a talk about Sap Baat Sau and Yi Lou Jaak Yiu. He explains the difference between the move in Yun Hau Bo and Ma Bo.
He also mentioned the two different names “Baak Yun Ching Haak” and “Ba Wong Ching Haak”.
I automatically take the name for the move in the Bang Bo! Thank you once more for the clarification.
Do you got the chinese characters for the right name?
“suen sao heen yeurng”?
Right counter intercepting hand and Left counter intercepting hand.
This is the quick hand movements done 2 moves before the first panther/hand fanning at the end of bung bo.
The application is that the opponents right punch comes in and is hooked out of the air with the defenders right hand - and inwards twist is applied to the wrist and the left hand is used to break the opponents wrist.
The same can be done but with opposite hands if a left punch is thrown at you.
Anybody know any other applications to this?
Craig
Zuo Cha Zhang
Tainan showed me his version of Bengbu which is quite similar to the HK 7 Star version otherwise known as Yantai Bengbu or Da Bengbu. But the 2 men of that is definitely different. Let’s just call that Ponglai version Bengbu. It is quite different from CCK TCPM version also. In fact, the 2 men versions are completely different. So the Zuo Cha Zhang (left inserting palm) applications are different accordingly. Ponglai’s version can actually use to attack the throat if we follow the form of Ponglai. It seems to me that most of us here are just a ted more polite by suggesting just attacking the chest or face. 
But that’s understandablely practice protocol. Of course to make this throat attack effective, the hand formation (still a palm) would be a little different. Now, I stress that this is by no means “hidden” application. It is simply a case of change certain details of the move so that it would be a fight ender. This is what Hui Shi (empty full) or Bian Hua of the move means in Mantis. BTW, I showed that hand formation to Tainan when he visited me. Anyway, it’s a very cool/cruel move.
Mantis108
yu shan
Don’t be getting too mushy on us now. 
Thank you yu shan Shifu!
We have 2 sadness. One is the death of so many people and the other is, No countdown for New Year Eve! Our Government is too sad to validate a countdown and all permit for fireworks display are revoked. Instead, we are told to recite prayers.
Understood MantisCool…understood! I will share this with you. This catastrophic accurance has affected and moved all of us! It is overwhelming to say the least.
M108
I hear you about this strike going to the throat, guess I was being nice. So the Bengbu Tainan demonstrated was Yantai? Can you give us info on why it was called (maybe) Da Bengbu? That means Big Mantis. And yes, the slight change in details can bring it to a fight ender.
HLL
You know I`ll slip up… 
I will keep my eyes on the horizon, there is so much information here… pure gold!
Re: Zuo Cha Zhang
Originally posted by mantis108
[B]Tainan showed me his version of Bengbu which is quite similar to the HK 7 Star version otherwise known as Yantai Bengbu or Da Bengbu.
…
Mantis108 [/B]
Are there any Meihua lineage people remaining currently on the Mainland in Laiyang, Shandong?
…
Appl.
Quote:
“Dang San Bo - Diu Sau followed by Pek Cheui (Bow Stance with Mantis Hand and Chop)
Dang San Bo - Au Lau Choi (Hook Grapple Pluck)
Step - Kwa Fu Bo - Siu Fan Che Cheui (Step in Tiger Riding Stance - Little Turning Wheel Punch)”
Appl.:
1.: Block ´n Grap an incoming Attack, counter at Ellbow or shoulder or Head/Neck
2.: The Defense or a new Attack is countered with Hook - Grapple - Pluck
3.: If Au Lau Choi is blocked, grab this Block and step in with a nice Uppercut to the lever or short - rips. At the same time you can apply a kick to the groin.
I’ve seen Bung Bo performed with different hands in the section with th back kick. The hands circle and end in mantis hooks while executing the kick. Can anyone identify with branch does this?
It actually looks a little bit like beginning of Little Mantis but the left hands extends out in a hook.
Da Bengbu
Hi Yu Shan,
Being nice is always a good thing.
The Yantai Bengbu is also known as the Da Bengbu (Large Crash and Fill) because of the frequent use of Dengshan Shi (hill climbing stance). Because of this there is an air of Changquan (long fist). Since this version is quite popular in Yantai (some believe that Bengbu was first introduced in Yantai) , it is also known as Yantai Bengbu because of where it first popularized.
Laiyang Bengbu on the other hand has virtually no Dengshan Shi. It uses mainly Xiao Shi or Xiao Deng Shan Shi (little hill climbing stance). BTW, I think in older Quanpu this Xiao Shi is also known as Shi Ji Bu (Charater Ten step). Laiyang Bengbu is quite consistant with the rest of the Classical Tanglang of Liang Xuexiang. Elements of Bazhou can be found in this version. The curious thing about this is that the first road is almost identical to the first road of Meihwa Lu. Laiyang Bengbu is said to have kept in Laiyang where Liang Xuexiang was teaching until lately some of Jiang Hualong - Song Zide’s descendents started teaching in Qingdao, Shandong.
The Ponglai version is in my mind Yantai Bengbu. Yet, the flavor is very unique. The flavor is consistant with the Mimen Lanjie that Tainan showed me. It has Sanhui Jiuhuan (3 Returns and 9 Rotations), Pai Da and Fajing (often one ich punch type) that pack quite an omph. I think this is truely a gem from Shrfu Shr Zheng Zhong.
The turn at the end of first road in Ponglai version and the CCK TCPM version is different. Ponglai version do this as a counter to opponent trying to dodge pass you to get your back. It uses one of the 8 shorts buttocks elbow/hip check. CCK TCPM do this similar to Laiyang Bengbu that you stick to the opponent’s hand as he passes and grabs your hair from behind. You execute an elbow lock/armbar while pulling him down and towards you (Laiyang verison is much low while CCK TCPM is a bit higher in horse stance). It doesn’t use the Buttocks elbow in this case. Ponglai version has an arm drag instead of the armbar. Both ways are fine and has it own place since both are base on the same principle of neutralize and attack at the same time. Of course, the following counters would make the whole thing go wild. That’s where the fun begins.
Hi Wolfen
I think there are plenty of Meihwa people in Laiyang.
Hualin,
Sorry, I have not seen that interpretaton. So… In all honesty, it sounds like a Wushu movie fu to me. :eek: May be Team EXtreme Mantis (TEM). [sorry can’t help but poke fun at it.]
Warm regards
Mantis108
108
you should write a book. Let me know when you do I am buying:)
Gathering information like that had to have taken much time and effort. Thanks for sharing with the strangers on the forum.
Informatin like this in like gold.
mantis108
The version I described is on a tape that a friend made for me. It’s from a training VCD and since I don’t read or speak Chinese I can’t tell the branch or the teacher.
I’ll search the net and see if I can recognize him on any VCDs. I like that version and was wondering about the application difference.
Just ran and checked the video and luckily at the beginning there is some english. Funny thing though it says Qi Xing Tang Lang. It starts out with a dragon head logo then shows a guy in white in a field. When the instruction starts he’s inside with an outdoor backdrop.
Hui Laoshi
The one thing I notice most about Shr ZhengZongs Bengbu and all the others I have seen.. is truly the Fajing energy! I think this is what makes a differance. Also, his partnered form is unique and distinct. Im lucky to have seen him play Bengbu two-person in differant ways. Plus, just when you think the partnered form teaches you the universe, he has a whole new way at looking at it. Master Shr is a true master of applications in my book. Question, deng shan shi, can this be translated to Jade Ring stance? And thank you for reminding about the buttocks/hips check. There is so much to this form.
deng shan shi is hill climbing stance or Dang san Bo in cantonese.
Jade Ring is Ru or Yu Huan Shi in cantonese Yap Wan Bo!
See also the newest MQ! (seems to be that this Magazin becoming more and more indispensable!)
MQ
GBL
Just received my order of all past issues of the quarterly. Talking about a dynamite Christmas present!!! I have some reading to do. Yu Huan Shi… thanks!
My 18 Elders form is 7* with dengshan shi stances. I have recently seen this form played pretty darn close to what I have, but the dengshan shi is all replaced by Yu Huan Shi. Does this make it Meiwua?
Hi Sayloc,
Thank you for the kind words and support. 
I truely appreciate that. Honestly, I have a lot of help from a lot of high calibur practitioners of our beloved art. So, I don’t think I can claim any experties on the material. I believe that Ilya Profatilov, Mike Martello, and Kevin Brazier are currently working on some book projects. I think these are certianly noteable material soon to be released. As for myself, I would love to come up with something in the future. Right now I think having the oppotunity to share with the public is great especially in veiw of what is happening with our world these days. If by sharing our little good fortune and making the world just a little bit nicer and friendlier, I think we won’t regret that we have lived in such trying time. Our lives are still somewhat meaningful while much of what is happening in the world is pretty senseless.
Hi Hualin,
The move you described is from an actual training video?! I really don’t know what to say, my friend except that buyers beware. I honestly could not see how the app in question would work except perhaps in a pre arranged sequence. I guess I will give it benefit of the doubt until I can see it. I don’t mean to offend your friend nor the producer of the video. But I am a skeptic in this case.
Hi Yu Shan,
Glad you have received all the back issue. I would love to hear your feed back as you go through them.
I generally agree with GBL on the traslations. However, in Classical Tanglang terminology, Yu Huan Shi (Jade Ring Stance) doesn’t exist. It is Yu Huan Shou or Yu Huan Bu. It basically is a transition from right Xiao Shi - Zuo Pan Shi - left Xiao Shi. The name Yu Huan IMHO is attributed to a famous Tang dynasty emperor’s consort Yang Yu Huan. The intricate footwork of Yu Huan Bu describes the way the fair lady moves gracefully and delicately. There is also a famous Peking opera play about the drunken frolic of the "Noble Consort ". If you look at the mechanics of Yu Huan Bu closely, it does remarkably resemble a lady or a drunkard’s movement. BTW, Ru Huan (enter the ring) is a 7 Stars terminology as far as I am aware.
Deng Shan shi (hill climbing/hiking stance) definitely describes a very somber and strong stance. In a way, you could say the Deng Shan Bu (Gang) and Yu Huan Bu (Rou) footwork are like Yin Yang.
Hope this answers your question.
Mantis108
I think the training VCD is from Master Rui-ting Hou (http://www.wushumedia.com/vcd.asp?code=2&ID=QXL01 ).
Guess it’s a modern Wushu version.
Sample here:
Hi Hualin,
Thanks for going to all that trouble for the clips. I really appreciate it.
Hou Rui Ting is quite famous and respected in the Mainland Mantis community. He also professed to know the forms listed in the Shaolin Authentics. I think he used to be on the Mainland Mantis forum as well. So he’s quite approachable.
I watched the kick part. My impression is that isn’t really a mantis hook hands while performing the kick. His hands did flick and somewhat look turned though (some type of Fajing IMHO because it was just a fraction of a second). I can’t said his interpretation of the form is my cup of tea; nevertheless, it is enjoyable. Frankly, these days I am more concerned about how the apps are like rather than how impressive the performance of the forms by the stylist. So seeing clips like these often don’t provide a good picture of how well does the stylist fair. I do think that this type of performance certainly will do fairly well in form competitions. This is by no mean suggest that this is Wushu although the way the stances are held would not likely render him or his students in serious disadvantage against modern Wushu stylists in form competitions.
Warm regards
Mantis108
Originally posted by German Bai Lung
[B]deng shan shi is hill climbing stance or Dang san Bo in cantonese.
Jade Ring is Ru or Yu Huan Shi in cantonese Yap Wan Bo!
See also the newest MQ! (seems to be that this Magazin becoming more and more indispensable!) [/B]
GBL,
Actually, the Cantonese for Jade Ring would be “Yook Wan”. HK 7* does not use this term as Mantis108 points out. We use “Yup Wan” which Mantis108 translates as “enter the ring”. Personally, I don’t believe the “Wan” character is used as a noun - ring. I think it is an adverb so I translate it as “round entering stance” which I think is very fitting for the way we use this step to enter our opponents space and trap the leg for a takedown.
I believe that the Jade Ring and Round Entering stances are the same and that the name difference most likely occurred because of an error in transcribing oral transmission. In Mandarin, they sound almost identical. Personally, Round Entering makes more sense in physically describing the action and usage of the stance than Jade Ring without having to grasp at other possible influences for the name but maybe someone has some historical documents to prove either.
YM
I think YM is correct. We called the stance as “Yup Wan” or
“… entering stance”. I think it is a preposition.
It is used as a squatting stance and normaly attack the lower half of the opponent where the defence is lower or maybe when the opponent also lowered down.