Alright, here’s another video of me. This time doing the one and only Bung bo.
I know there are a lot of mantis players out there so be kind, I am a novice. Although, I do welcome criticism.
Here it is: http://www.mccarriedesign.com/bungbo.mov
Hi Chief Fox
That’s interesting. May I ask who taught you this or where this form comes into your style/training? There are extra pauses (ie after the first mantis stance) that’s not “normally” done as far as I am aware. Other than that the form is more or less the same with HK Sevenstars.
Regards
Mantis108
That’s good stuff. I wish I could comment on the technique, though. But since I only know Mantis from videos such as this, and the movie Thundering Mantis - Shaolin Dolemite Collection , I can’t. Looked like you knew what you were doing.
So, thumbs up!
Hi, are you talking about the double backfist?
I learned the form from Sifu Nelson Horton who studied 7star Praying Mantis with the late Sifu David Chen. I think he studied in Hawaii. Not sure. This is one of the first forms that I learned.
I over emphasized the pauses between the movements because I’m recording the form for reference. I’m sure that my demonstration of the form probably doesn’t have the correct essence of mantis in quickness.
I did a search on the web and found another video of someone doing bung bo. Here’s the link: http://www.angelfire.com/film/mantiskungfu/bungbo.mov
Not trying to brag or anything, but I like mine better. Even though I don’t like how this person does the form, he does have the same double chamber after the first mantis stance.
I do want to perform the form correctly but this is how we do it at my school. Could you go into a bit more detail about the pauses? Thanks for the input.
maybe I’ll re-record the form at full speed so you can better idea of how I would normally do it. Thanks again.
Right after the “Din Gin Chua - belly button punch”, I wil do a “shoulder pulling down sweep (45 degree down)” followed by a “leg blocking and hook punch to the back of the head (45 degree down)” instead. The ending posture is the same but the application is different.
The “Zho San Fan - left ear strike” does not make much sense for the following reasons:
- Since your weight is leaning back and your arm is too far to reach to your opponent’s ear.
- The palm is in a claw shape and has “pulling” intention.
- The palm strike to the ear will not be power enough.
The “You San Fan - right ear strike” is the same.
Lot’s of people did the way you are doing and that include Lou Kao Yu, Hwang Han shuan and Brend Lai.
YKW,
Sounds like you are describing the Taiwan version.
May I ask who you learned it from?
Chief,
In HK when Haung Hanxun wrote a book on this form, I am guessing he may be your grand teacher or great grandteacher, he said that the form is performed in a single breath.
Seems hard right?
What he means is that there is no chance to think about inhaling and exhaling like you would in some other styles.
At least this is how it was expalined to me by my shifu, Shi Zhengzhong in Taiwan.
So, for performing the entire from it is not correct to perform bao zhou-hugging the waist, throughout the form.
So why do you do it that way?
In the teaching of single techniques of this Mantis form, the shifu will use bao zhou after a single techniqe for the purpose of repeating that technique over and over.
So it seems likely that someone in your past lineage spent a lot of time drilling the 1st two techniques over and over.
About critique of you yourself:
In the second right punch of the 1st road you deliver the punch very high as opposed to delivering it from your waist. In other words, the elbow floats in an upward ark as opposed to a straight line from the waist.
Why should the hand shoot forth from the waist?
In this move your right hand should have jerked the opponents right arm to your waist, thus making it difficult for him to defend as you send forth your right punch.
Anyway, that is one way of looking at it.
Looks like you are having fun, keep up the good work.
Kevin
Chief,
Just looked very close at the form.
I retract my statement of Huang Hanxun being in your lineage.
This form has enough small differences to show it is not the school HK 7* of Luo Guangyu.
CF, I don’t know differences in lineage and such as my kung fu uncle Kevin does but I’ll ask a question and make one comment:
as you start back on the 2nd road, what stances are you supposed to be using?
hill climbing or something else?
in either event, you’re not quite getting the back foot rooted and therefore not generating good power, no matter which step you are supposed to be using.
just a thought, bro…kudos again.
you got a purdy mouth.
i mean yard.
you got a pretty package.
yard.
WOW! Thank you all for your comments. All except the purdy mouth/nice package one.
I’m not sure I know where to start.
YouKnowWho: I must admit that I don’t always think about practical application while doing or learning a form. This is something that I need to focus on a bit more.
K.Brazier: You’re absolutely right about my elbow how it’s going too high and how it should be at my waist. I’ll make the adjustment.
Oso: You may be reffering to a different part of the form but the downward elbow and the rolling backfist are both “supposed” to be in a hill climbing stance. In my video they are not.
As I look closer and closer at the video I see a lot of little things that are very sloppy. Most of all, my stances. As in very little rooting at all.
I’m also starting to think that video is a good training tool. Actually seeing how you do a form so you can quickly understand what you’re doing wrong and make adjustments.
Thanks again everyone. The only thing I can say is, it’s a good thing that I have the rest of my life to work on this stuff.
I’ll try to post a revision of this form soon.
CF, yea, I travel 4 or 9 hours to train with my teachers and always video myself doing whatever they taught me…and them if they let me… so I can refer back when I go over it again…long live video!
I was talking about the first couple of moves after doing the arm break/drag at the very end of the first road…well, it’s the end for us, it might be the beginning of the 2nd for others.
it’s the left hooking hand w/ right hammer followed by gou lou cai movements.
Nice form…though I was a little dissapointed…from the thread title I thought the vid was going to involve you and forum member bung bo…with the De Niro av…
Ok, I think I know where you’re at.
- the left hooking hand is a half horse stance. Horse stance with an open left foot.
- the hammer is a bow stance.
- shuffle/stomp into a left cat stance with a right hooking hand capture with a left back fist.
I look at that video and now the only thing that I look at is my lame stances. I’ll be using the video more and more from now on. Thanks again for all the input. 
Another concern that I have about this form is the begin of the 2nd part, the 9th move - Bei Ti Shrang Boa Chang, you use left palm strike with right palm next to your left ear, you then kick right leg “behind” your left leg. The problem on this knee kick is:
- Hard to aim your opponent’s knee when you kick behind your left leg.
- Right toe pointing downward which is pareller to your opponent’s leg that make it unefficitive on the knee kick.
- Hrad to deliver power on that kick.
- Difficult to combine with the double palms move on this.
- The power generated by the upper body could cancel out the power generated by the low body. If your palm strike is powerful then your kick will not be powerful and vise verse.
If you change that “back” right kick to a “front” right kick then the move will make more sense:
- Your right leg is in front of you so it’s easy to aim at your opponent’s knee.
- You can use cross kick to make your foot 90 degree across to your opponent knee.
- You can delive more power on this kick.
- By combine with the double hands pulling that will make a nice “Rua Bei Yin Men Ti - double pulling knee kick throwing”.
Again, form is for “teaching and learning” purpose and not for “practicing”. Depending on your application, you can change your form anyway you like during practicing.
The way that I look at this move is that I’ll never kick my right leg behind my left leg, so why drill some move that I’ll never use it?
yep, that was the place.
i see that it is closer to half open now that you mention it. No wonder I thought you were between a horse and a hill climbing 
i was taught to do that move w/ a horse. but it’s all very transitory.
we do our arm breaking facing ‘downroad’ towards the opponent from a void stance (versus sideways like I see most do). In the two person we are grasping their left arm which has punched to our belly and they hammer towards the head with their right hand–>my left hand gua’s (horse) then hooks and pulls down as I give them a hammer back (shifting to hill climbing from horse)–> they gua the hammer with their right and punch me in the face with their left and I gou lou cai in off of that attack to right punch them as I step towards them in hill climbing.
YKW: I’ve never had a problem aiming or delivering power with that kick. I’ve never really applied it exactly as it’s shown in bung bu but have done it often and successfuly in clinching situations. I don’t know that I would really recommend it for long range, or even medium range, when you don’t have contact with your opponent…Is that what you are saying???
With the left arm extend like in the form, I have to assume the form designer’s original intention was for long or medium range and not for clinching range. Even the long or medium range, the left hand can reach much further than the right kick behind the left leg. So if your left hand can hit on your opponent’s head (I don’t know how much power can be generated from that back palm) then your left leg cannot reach your opponent’s knee. Or your right kick can reach to your opponent’s knee then your left hand will pass your opponent’s head. The left arm is for “long range” but the right kick is for “short range” that make this move not very effective.
This remind me a move in TKD form that you deliver a side kick then followed by an elbow strike. Does not make much sense.
Hi Chief Fox,
I was talking about the Bao Shou as Kevin mentioned. There are at least 2 times of this in your form. Both are before the left inserting palm and right filling punch sequence. Looks like your interpretation of it is a double backfist application? I agreed with Kevin that this is not done in most of the Bengbu version that we know of. Frankly, this is the first time I have seen it done this way.
I learned the form from Sifu Nelson Horton who studied 7star Praying Mantis with the late Sifu David Chen. I think he studied in Hawaii. Not sure. This is one of the first forms that I learned.
Hawaii? I know a David Cheng who passed away couple of years ago. He was from my lineage (CCK TCPM) not Sevenstar PM. The form that you have is certainly not from CCK TCPM. So, it’s properly from one of the HK Sevenstar lineage.
I over emphasized the pauses between the movements because I’m recording the form for reference. I’m sure that my demonstration of the form probably doesn’t have the correct essence of mantis in quickness.
Well, you know IMHO the reason why mantis is fast is that there are not extra movements when carrying out a combination. Practically, each move is an attack and each reinforces the other to from a combination. In some older styles of mantis you won’t find the hands chambering at the waist at all during the form.
I did a search on the web and found another video of someone doing bung bo. Here’s the link: http://www.angelfire.com/film/mantiskungfu/bungbo.mov
Not trying to brag or anything, but I like mine better. Even though I don’t like how this person does the form, he does have the same double chamber after the first mantis stance. I do want to perform the form correctly but this is how we do it at my school. Could you go into a bit more detail about the pauses? Thanks for the input.
The link isn’t working for me. So I can’t tell. Well, Bengbu especially this version that is know as Yantai Bengbu or Da Bengbu is quite while spread. It is possible that different styles and lineages within the system have their own ideas about how it should be done. Personally, I don’t believe the double chamber in any Tanglang form is correct. It is going against the original theory rather than complimenting it IMHO. But then that’s just me. I think Kevin’s input is good so I will go with that.
maybe I’ll re-record the form at full speed so you can better idea of how I would normally do it. Thanks again.
Video is a great tool for learning MA. So by all means do share your re-recording. Thanks for the share.
Warm regards
Robert (Mantis108)
You are right about that. I learned the original form from Brendan Lai but after I have talked to Adam Hsu, I changed my mind and I like Taiwan version better than the HK version.
The shoulder pulling leg sweep followed by a leg back kick and hook punch to the head just sounds much more powerful and effective than the simple plam strike to the ear.
i agree…I was just talking about that rear cross kick itself and not necessarily in the context of the form.
in our set we are aiming for the groin with the left hand and the near or fore leg with the kick. In that instance the opponent is very close and the arm is going for a medium range target and the leg for a short range target so the difference in length of limb is necessary for that technique.
but Kevin may correct me on that
having said that, it’s not one I’m going to stick in my toolbox for free sparring
one of the things I do in a clinch is attack the ankles and knees w/ short kicks. I’ve had people try to shuck past me and been able to land that short cross kick well enough to stall them long enough for me to square back up or even toss them. i’ll even say I’m pretty good at it and get most of my dumps and throws setting up this way.
The odd back kick.
1st move of 2nd road.
In not all schools is it called bei ti becuase not all schools consider it a back kick.
Funny, I have seen this type of move applied in Aikido, it may even be the exact same move.
My sparring partner, Mike Selin, who trained Aikido, and I one day were exchanging moves of our styles.
Wow! I said, we have this same move.
Chief,
It is hard to visualize in the form because the way you do it everything happens on a single line.
The back hand with “back kick” and “horse stance double sealing hands” move that follow it are applied to angles relative to the opponent for the purpose of pulling him off his center line. either pulling him forward or backwards as the situation dictates.