was going over some different leg techniques in class, and was wondering what other mantis systems incorporate leg work. Do we focus enough on the legs? is thier anything tha can be added?
leg work
Can you elaborate on what you mean by “leg work” and share what you do in this regard?
Earthdragon,
Since my primary CMA style for 30 years was Monkey Boxing, I lay heavy emphasis on leg techniques in the mantis that I teach. Though not a mantis philosophy, I incorporate the “Four Hands Theory” (KFM July/August 2010) as a part of our training.
Richard A. Tolson
[QUOTE=KwaiChangCaine;1037581]Can you elaborate on what you mean by “leg work” and share what you do in this regard?[/QUOTE]
i second that… be more specific…
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1037555]was going over some different leg techniques in class, and was wondering what other mantis systems incorporate leg work. Do we focus enough on the legs? is thier anything tha can be added?[/QUOTE]
This is a very good form to train your leg techniques.
How does a form “train” leg techniques?
Thanks
JAB
[QUOTE=Three Harmonies;1037688]How does a form “train” leg techniques?
Thanks
JAB[/QUOTE]
OK just forget it.
Dang it. I missed out on the secrets.
Mandarin duck leg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_rynpi2W04
that was the link…
it looks like a good workout… ive learned similar forms from training years ago… do that fast like 5 times a day and you’ll progress fast…
there are tons of forms like that, some better than others… some really hard, other pretty easy…
so thats what yall meant by leg work???
alex, no need to be insecure, he was just asking a question… everyone gets to have their say in here… you shouldnt feel the need to edit past posts because of percieved criticism… the clip was most welcome…
Yes, that looks like an excellent form for mastering the proper method of kicking. What style of mantis does that form appear in?
Jake,
Its true that no form can develop practical kicking application, that happens with drills and sparring. However, I believe Sifu Tse meant the form could help one master proper kicking techniques and possibly contain kicking theories. I wholeheartedly agree with him. I always tell my students that if you can’t master proper bodily movement in a form (no impact, no threat), how in the world are you NOT going to throw crappy techniques under pressure (painful impact, huge threat)?
Too much of what I have seen in modern MMA is absolute slop due to the lack of some teachers de-emphasis of forms (choreographed shadow-boxing). I think this is a shame. IMO, mastering the basics through forms should be the FIRST step if one desires to accomplish much when it comes time to test one’s skills in the ring.
Though I believe it is also sad when peeps are under the misconception that they know how to effectively fight, just because they know a bazillion forms. My hometown has certainly been filled with that fantasy. I know I personally did my part in trying to destroy that myth. 
Richard A. Tolson
sorry guys allow me to be more specific, however I was not speaking of kicking or strenghtening the legs but rather using specific leg techniques in your ciriculum
i.e
tiao- lift
tong- reverse leg sweep
kiou- forward sweep
ki- trip kick
tahn- outside to inside
tswa- leg wrap
ding - knee
gou- hook
etc etc
we were going over these and a student asked if they were strickly 8 step mantis ,or all mantis techniques and I honeslty could not answer.
peace! i trained under one of philipman chow’s(mainland 7 star) students a few years back and i saw him do some trapping and stuff with his legs. i never got to learn it or feel it myself but it looked pretty cool. also when i was in atlanta i went and checked out sun de yao’s student(tai chi plum blossom mantis from the hao family) and they seem to do some stuff like that too.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1037877]
tiao- lift
tong- reverse leg sweep
kiou- forward sweep
ki- trip kick
tahn- outside to inside
tswa- leg wrap
ding - knee
gou- hook
[/QUOTE]
There are more leg techniques. IMO, the leg technique should not have any style boundary, and every CMA styles should all train it.
Forward kick (TI),
Scooping kick (CUO),
Sticking kick (ZHAN),
Spring (TAN),
Hooking kick (TIAO),
Foot entangling (CHAN),
Inner hook (HE),
Foot picking (JIAN),
Inner kick(CHONG),
Inner heel sweep (GUA),
Inner sickle (DAO)
Break (BIE),
Back kick (LIAO),
Front cut(QIE),
Sickle hooking (XIAO)
Back sickle (GOU),
Back inner hook (LI),
Leg bending lift (KUAI)
interesting Youknow who, you listed some I havent heard of, as 8 step only has 14 so thank you for that, but do you think these are used in ALL kung fu styles?
I was wondering of the monkey footwork in other mantis styles broke them down as far as 8 step does. or if it was a bagua influence…
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1037877]sorry guys allow me to be more specific, however I was not speaking of kicking or strenghtening the legs but rather using specific leg techniques in your ciriculum
i.e
tiao- lift
tong- reverse leg sweep
kiou- forward sweep
ki- trip kick
tahn- outside to inside
tswa- leg wrap
ding - knee
gou- hook
etc etc
we were going over these and a student asked if they were strickly 8 step mantis ,or all mantis techniques and I honeslty could not answer.[/QUOTE]
We use tiao, ki, tswa, ding and gou (to use your terminology) in our PM school. Most of these are also commonly found in Seven Star PM forms.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1037898]interesting Youknow who, you listed some I havent heard of, as 8 step only has 14 so thank you for that, but do you think these are used in ALL kung fu styles?
I was wondering of the monkey footwork in other mantis styles broke them down as far as 8 step does. or if it was a bagua influence…[/QUOTE]
Shandong was home to both mantis and monkey styles. However, based on the monkey style I have practiced for decades and the other monkey styles that I have personally witnessed, mantis has very little to do with true monkey footwork. Though I know the legends say otherwise. I can only think of a couple mantis moves that are similar to any of the monkey styles that I know of. Mantis might refer to it as monkey, but most Monkey stylists would certainly see the difference.
[QUOTE=EarthDragon;1037898]do you think these are used in ALL kung fu styles?[/QUOTE]
May be just a subset. Break (BIE), Forward kick (TI), Scooping kick (CUO), Sticking kick (ZHAN), and Sickle hooking (XIAO) are all used in the 7 star Mantis “waist chop”.
Alex
You are hyper sensitive! I was just asking a simple question. Relax a bit homie!
Richard,
I agree a solid base is needed before hitting anything too hard. I have no clue when Alex meant, neither do you, so I hate to put words in the mans mouth!
As for your comments on poor kicking in MMA… brother… are you watching any MMA?? Aldo. Silva. The other Silva. Crocop. Buakaw. GSP.
Seriously, if you have not been watching MMA you should. “Sloppy” kicking is not what I call it!
JAB
[QUOTE=Three Harmonies;1037986]Alex
You are hyper sensitive! I was just asking a simple question. Relax a bit homie!
Richard,
I agree a solid base is needed before hitting anything too hard. I have no clue when Alex meant, neither do you, so I hate to put words in the mans mouth!
As for your comments on poor kicking in MMA… brother… are you watching any MMA?? Aldo. Silva. The other Silva. Crocop. Buakaw. GSP.
Seriously, if you have not been watching MMA you should. “Sloppy” kicking is not what I call it!
JAB[/QUOTE]
Jake,
Actually I was a bit off-topic. I was referring to the punching techniques. I prob should watch more current ones. I was so turned off by early sloppy hand techniques and the low percentage of kicks that I haven’t watched much lately. I’m not much into watching two guys in little shorts rolling around on the mat (perhaps a bit too ****phobic :D).
Thanks for the heads up. I’ll start watching again and see what is currently happening.
mooying,
intertesting what you said about monkey in mantis. I was also under the impression that monkey footwork was absolutley in early praying mantis boxing.
I do know that in 8 step our footwork was taken from Ba gua and has no monkey in it apparently this was added by Chiang Hua Long as he aged and the monkey footwork used to much energy and effort.
So where does this myth come from? and where did mantis get jumping and rolling tech’s if not from monkey?