Well to answer your question, we explode out of the eye gouge into oblivion not stopping until tiger stance arm break/backfist. Pardon me friends i use extremely American coloquilism for all of this only because i mostly teach English speaking fighters that would like to keep the wording simple leaving more room for the concepts to be fully explored.
alot of our power and thrust is derived from years of baji as well so our Bung Bu looks a bit different than others in the sense of power emphasis.
Terrific question this thread is really Monkey’s
Good job darkfist, it would have been bad form for me to hijack a good thread.
Sifu Darkfist - the 2 moves after ‘catching the cicarda’ in the beginning of bung bo…do you personally link these from the 2 moves before, or do you use them as separate applications to simply charge down your opponent from head on. Im only interested as I have seen different takes on the application to this.
Basically this was my question. Im very curisous about bung bo. The sheer amounts of varitations and takes on this form as well as the diverse difference between how different lineages string together applications really interests me.
I posted a thread recently about the underlying theory of mantis forms. This topic has been an interest of mine the past few weeks as i am curious about peoples apporach to the form. Whats your focuses, favourite/most worked on apps, and takes on the form.
lets just begin with bung bo and then see where it takes us.
Continuing the discussion about the 3rd and 4th move in bung bo.
My lineage simply starts with the supplermentary punch and then catches the same arm to pull them forward off balance. (I noticed you mentioned an eye gouge application- we only use this move for catching the arm).
We then lean into a forward hill climbing stance with a palm strike to the chest and then step forward and strike to the chest/face with a right punch.
after the kick to the low shin it is a drive into the victim with relentless tenacity.
THe palm is a power push that is meant to overwhelm the victim and allow for a devastating punch coupled with full body power. so yes the move is essentially the same however ours resembles a frieght train at this point.
This is why i argue with so called mma guys about the origin of their stuff, i already see the same tactics in bung bu the first line of the form is a perfect example of this OLD fighting mentality this shows the Validity of what the masters taught even in todays so called modern world. The point is killing by hand was much more applicable then because men didnt have a choice.
opps got off again sorry
back to bung bu
We open with a block and punch before moving into the tiger riding stance and the bu chan . We use this as our right mantis hand blocks a right punch and attaches on , the lead left mantis hand blocks the following left counter punch and attaches on so creating a crossarm trap . The left mantis hand continues to pluck the left counter puch and follows with the left thrusting palm strike up your opponents arm to strike the face in a hill climbing stance before following through with the powerful straight punch to the throat in a right hill climbing stance .
It seems many have forgotten the emphasis on overwhelming attack incurred by the composer of bung bu. (not any of you guys that are replying) but i have seen Bung Bu without tenacity and broken into unnatural progressions such as pauses where there are none etc. With reagard to the end of the third line and the begining of the fourth many styles do not emphasize the throws in these movements and i feel it is unfortunate (while i am the first to admit there is 3 or four apps for each move) these paritcular throws have served the san shou ring and real life equally well. Not to mention their effectiveness with grapplers and fighting grapplers, anyway it is something to ponder.
Darkfist I do agree with you about the bursting through of bung bo. The mantid is a fierce fighter and forms should imitate a mantids mindset and be fiercly fast. The form translates as ‘crushing/bursting steps’ so it would puzzle me why anyone would introduce pauses into the movements. I come from lee kam wings lineage and our version is done pretty much straight through with no pauses at all.
On the point of the beginning of the 3rd road and the beginning of the fourth. Here we are talking about the ‘lower leg sprouting with mantis claw’ and the ‘fanning hand with collapsing stance’ yes? Well I have seen many variations on this too. I would say that it is unnessesary to over emphasize the sweep to the point of kicking the leg high up to the side (cheif fox’s bung bo video is a good example of this). I think he mentioned brendon lee taught him the form this. In our lineage the footwork is simply a ‘7 star stance’ but the hand movement does swing back fast as if hitting the face/throat.
Whos to say whats right and whats wrong in the end…except hmmm, wong long.
I believe all the different versions of Bung Bo start out with a left palm block right punch except for one. I can’t remember which style has a couple of moves before this combo.
““I believe all the different versions of Bung Bo start out with a left palm block right punch except for one.””
There are many versions of Beng Bu. The lesser known ones start out differently from the widely known 7* version.
I practice Plum Flower beng Bu. It begins with eye strikes followed by groin strike.
In fact, though you can see that it is Beng Bu, the entire form only has 2 linear punches. the form dodges to the left and right most often, but not so much of the forward linear strikes.
In fact, the punch you mention(bu chuei), is not anywhere in my form. It is replaced by outer forearm elbow to the groin(bi zhou)and is the 2nd move not the first.
As for Taiji Beng Bu it also has a different beginning, but I will let Robert comment on that.
There was a video called ‘eskos bung bo’ or something like that. I perticularly remember that the beginning was quite different to what I know of.
If I remember right, in the beginning he dropped into a circle entrance stance and punched out for a groin strike instead of the well know ‘block and supplermentary punch in tiger riding’.
I think that whatever lineage the emphasis should be on the underlying theory, so hands and feet should be **** quick.
Wah Lum’s Bung Bo has a couple of moves before the block/punch combo. I don’t know about any of the others although I’ve seen the 7 Star version and it goes right into the block/punch.
wow i would like to thank you for including this link for our viewing pleasure Taichi.
It is very different in flavor to ours, however for the most part i can recognize all the moves and their links to the same moves in our flavor. i like the emphasis on diversion of victims body weight in the forms underlying signature.
Maybe if i can get my rear end off of my essays and out of Training long enough to break out the camera i will perform ours for you to view here as well.
james
I have video of Hu Xi Lin`s son Tony, performing their Bengbu. Tai ji Mei Hua version nicely done by Tony. I will check it out, I dont remember how it starts off hand.
The three takedowns at the end of 3 going into 4, the way I was taught is using deng ta smashing them with forearm. First road is just plain running over your antagonist. One of my guys uses the grab punch/knee combo in sparring. It seems some of his peers have trouble blocking the knee and punch at the same time. Even though they have been taught this since day one.
Hey guys. Good video posted up. I would like to see your clip sometime darkfist. I am in the process of getting a video too.
yu shan - we also use the forearm as this makes contact with the chin/face as the hand reaches for the ear. What defensive moves have you been taught against the knee/punch.
