Because you demanded it: more on-topic threads. Picture from Andrea Falk’s marvelous translation of Jiang Rong Qiao’s Baguazhang, from her site: www.thewushucentre.ca Check it out!
Now, the game: Find the application!
This is a baguazhang posture that we call ‘fierce tiger leaps out of cave.’ Your task: Describe an application where you’d use this posture! It’s one of my favorites, but I’m not gonna ruin the game by telling you what I [try to] use it for!
Don’t worry about the arrows. Not just for baguazhang folk! Not even just for kungfu folk! Everyone try your hand! It doesn’t have to be a one-step application; it can be in the middle of a scuffle, whatever, just use the posture!
We have a move almost exactly like that in the Wing Chun dummy sets. The top arm is a dispersing block and the bottom is a palm-strike to the midsection from the outside gate.
fa_jing: I dunno how you do the dispersing block, but… a fun way of doing that is making contact with that ‘dispersing block’ when you are rear-weighted, with the back of your arm, which is extended straight forward, palm down-ish. Then, sticking with that arm, push your weight forward into the bow while rotating the ‘dispersing block’ forearm until the fingers point up-ish and palm points at your face. You can get a really spirally energy doing this that really closes down someone’s structure, and the real push from your legs and waist as you rotate and enter is great.
Ah… but that might be closer range than wing chun. How tight are you trained to go on a move like that? Going head on, we’ll step straight through the guys legs and make hip-hip contact, not hang back and do it. But there’s a better close-range step with that technique than doing head-on…
Hey we do it with a slightly different jing - more of a rotational energy based on an axis through the rear foot. Also in the form it involves a step forward from a side stance to a forward stance bringing up what was the rear foot to be the front foot. Kindof hard to describe - you are side stepping to the outside gate then turn back to face the opponent. Sort of like walking the outside circle and then stepping in towards the center of the circle with what was your rear foot. I think the main difference is probably the horse that we use.
WD: but an advanced Wing Chun practicioner can issue 8.3 patty-cake slaps per second.
I just saw your edit. No we aren’t trained to bang hips, but the stepping leg may make contact with the opponent’s leg and help to break their structure. The range is that which is optimal for the palm strike from our stance. Then the idea is to keep striking and cramping them and applying forward pressure until they go down - but maintaining some seperation the whole time rather than closing for a throw.
Aha… we have the exact same posture later in the form, only throwing an elbow instead of a palm strike… we’re pretty happy getting close.
I think I know what you mean about attacking the opponent’s leg with your weighted/front knee… one of the things we work is the idea that any bow stance is an implied ‘press’ from above and to the side of the opponent’s knee joint with your own knee as you enter and sink into the stance. Works good for us tall *******s.
Ok, This looks like a throw to me. The lead leg has stepped behind the opponent, the rising arm has cut power of an attack, it turns grabs the face, then the body rotates left drawing the happless victem over the lead leg and down to the floor where you slam the back of his head off the concrete.
Of course that could just be an application from one of my Tai Tzu sets that uses the same posture
But imagine as if you’re going for a two-on-one hold on a guy’s arm. Your left hand (going along with the picture…) captures the dude’s right (his right) inner wrist, but instead of holding above the elbow with your right arm, your right arm slips up behind the dude’s right arm (his right) as you pull the slack from it with your wrist-crapture, so his above-the-elbow is nestled in your right elbow-pit (and your right fingers point up, right palm points to your face, as in the picture). You’re not in the bow stance yet… so as you shift, emphasize the clockwise (looking down) shifting-and-waist energy to first pull back the right arm (holding his above the elbow) and then press his inside-wrist with your left hand, as if you were doing that palm strike, locking the elbow against it’s grain (or do it more violently).
I like the fire-and-forget ‘hammer people with your body until they stop moving’ approach better, but hey, it’s all good!
OK, serious app. The pushing hand is actually hugging the guy to keep him close. The hand moving upward has a knife in it (icepick grip) and cuts the guys face from chin to forehead.
The next move is to bring the knife down into the base of his skull as you sweep him.
Imagine the right side of the body entering on the inside into the bow step, the right hand lifts as in the picture to stop a clinch or as an upward glancing block (glancing off to your side, not supporting like a roof block :eek: ) , then it just hammers right back down again with the bottom of that elbow, the arm in that same position. Lots of decent targets!
Or you could just charge down the center (literally try to run through him) with the elbow moving up. You’re gonna catch something, doesn’t really matter what.
it looks to me like the left (low) hand is parrying or even slightly crowding your partners arm towards his body as you either chop or palm with the right (top) hand…
could be stepping in at an angle to your partner and using your front leg to take his structure, and knocking him with a palm to the head… (similar to the wing chun dummy form).
WD - Haha totally… my teacher showed me that as an app to a bear posture from xingyi… he glanced my attack, caught my chin with the elbow coming up, then dropped it down on my pec. Felt brutal! (and made me decide to work on it myself!)
