" Speed beats power everytime."
i was going to laugh at you, but i’ll wait until the tyson/lewis fight is a more distant memory.
still though . ..
Originally posted by greendragon
Dogg, remember that it’s all about center. in any technique the first thing that moves should be center.
Now this is the advanced talk. Most of the TaiChi people I have seen have overy emphasised on relex and softness and lost the center, fallen apart. It is good to hear this statement.
Originally posted by Le nOObi
[B]
First of all i dont think chin-na was added into CMA styles i believe it was there from the start!
Second of all i dont think CMA hasnt considered certain situations because the TCMA people should reach a certain skill level before testing their skill. Few CMA have say ground fighting forms but the forms are just demonstrations of proper applications of the way a style works. Not all the moves that could exist in a system. Take this analogy for instance when you learn a musical style you learn songs in the style however those songs are only parts of your musical style and more can be composed. Also pretty much every CMA has throws. If these throws were practical on other CMA people it would have been possible to fight people on the ground.
If this isnt true i guess Shoy Chiao is just a crappy martial art because it isnt possible to throw Any skilled CMA guy! [/B]
First, I think I must make clear that I have said “many”, not all. If you do some research, there is more CMA that added ChinNa into the system then the ones that come with ChinNa at the start.
Second, it is true that higher level in the main stream of TCMA do not encourage ground fights. They will insist to stay on feet.
You need to do more research on ShuaiChiao’s too. The trowing of ShuaiChaio is a fast finish and usuall done with stand ups. In the purpose of testing one’s art, if you have been throw, you lost. No need to struggle on the floor. That is what traditionals alway been. If you are fighting for life/lives, then that you will struggle where ever you are.
It will be also true if your door is good enough and no chance of grabs are given, then there will be no throw. In high level BaGua, it was designed to have such function.
"Speed beats power everytime. If I hit you ten times before you can land that one bomb I will confuse you and your senses. "
If your ten punches are weak and ineffectual and my one punch is a knockout blow then you’re screwed. I would say that speed is a part of power.
Dogg make sure you know your art well. Make sure it is what you revert to when you are being beaten and are punch drunk. Make it your natural way of moving.
Do a shed load of cardio, and pressure test your stuff against MMA guys, not Taiji guys.
Good luck man, you’re going to need it, but go for it.
No reason on earth you can’t be successful as long as you train for the opponents you’re going to meet. If you can train your Taiji to handle the type of people you’re likely to meet in the UFC you shouldn’t have many problems on the street either.
And you seem to have drive, so you f*cking go for it dude.
asdas
Originally posted by PaulLin
[B]
Second, it is true that higher level in the main stream of TCMA do not encourage ground fights. They will insist to stay on feet.
You need to do more research on ShuaiChiao’s too. The trowing of ShuaiChaio is a fast finish and usuall done with stand ups. In the purpose of testing one’s art, if you have been throw, you lost. No need to struggle on the floor. That is what traditionals alway been. If you are fighting for life/lives, then that you will struggle where ever you are.
It will be also true if your door is good enough and no chance of grabs are given, then there will be no throw. In high level BaGua, it was designed to have such function. [/B]
Thats not the point i was trying to make at all. What i was trying to say was this, in an earlier post you claimed that the reason so few CMA have groundfighting is because people in CMA are supposed to have a certain level of skill already implying CMA people will never be taken down/dont need groundfighting.
Following that line of reasoning to its inevitable conclusion it would be impossible for one skilled CMA guy to throw another.
I wasnt saying that shoy chiao would be crappy because i think it is about groundfighting because i know its not.
What the point of my post is is that if one CMA guy can throw another its possible for a BJJ guy to take them down.
Also what is this research about CMA’s adding Chin-Na you speak of having done?
and pressure test your stuff against MMA guys, not Taiji guys.
This isn’t consistant with my own coaching or personal research. Only a more senior, fellow Tai Chi player can discern the points of failure in practice. This goes hand-in-hand with my previous post. It’s an inclusive process. Further fragmentation takes one further from the focus of the training.
Agree with Shooter
It helps if you have a coach who has already been through the process of modifying your style to account for the rules and the gloves, be what they may. At the risk of kissing my sifu’s ass for the umpteenth time on this forum, let me say that my sifu has a long, varied, competitive fight experience, from the streets to the ring. And he was very successful in MMA events about 5-10 years ago, no he didn’t beat everybody, but he beat an overwhelming majority of the opponents he faced, from what I understand. His Wing Chun is excellent. Using skills and techniques developed from Kung Fu, and a training regimine both traditional, and coming from boxing and JKD. Don’t even try to tell me what he does is not Kung Fu. I think we all agree that the techniques and theory from CMA are great, but if you want to fight in the ring, you have to train like the ring-fighters train. Not exactly the same, but supplement your traditional training with jumping rope, bag work, extra sparring, put gloves on while you do your drills, etc. Just in case your class doesn’t already address these training elements.
-FJ
Although it is usually good to try out your stuff against other styles, once you reach a certain skill level.
-FJ
MP
I was just telling Dogg to get familiar with what the guys he’ll face will try to do to him, so he can learn to counter it using his own stlyes’ tools that are available. That’s what I meant about most BJJers knowing something about the standup game.
You learn how to deal with strikers, right? That is, how to time them, keep your distance until you are ready to shoot in, that kind of thing. The ring and the Kwoon are not the street I agree.
For me personally right now, I don’t think I need to learn the groundgame. Luckily, I have found and excellent teacher who teaches groundwork within our WC principles. I am learning to counter grapplers using WC, not by learning another art. I believe in looking within one’s system for questions that may arise. I am at the point now where Sifu feels I am ready to spar with other styles (2 years of WC). Besides that, I am somewhat familiar with grappling from growing up and a MA club at school.
I know how to “swim” .
BTW- I’ll be in D.C. soon for work. Whereabouts are you? If I’m staying close to you, perhaps we could meet?
Re: asdas
Originally posted by Le nOObi
[B]
Thats not the point i was trying to make at all. What i was trying to say was this, in an earlier post you claimed that the reason so few CMA have groundfighting is because people in CMA are supposed to have a certain level of skill already implying CMA people will never be taken down/dont need groundfighting.
Following that line of reasoning to its inevitable conclusion it would be impossible for one skilled CMA guy to throw another.
I wasnt saying that shoy chiao would be crappy because i think it is about groundfighting because i know its not.
What the point of my post is is that if one CMA guy can throw another its possible for a BJJ guy to take them down.
Also what is this research about CMA’s adding Chin-Na you speak of having done? [/B]
The 2nd and 3rd paragraph you may over looked or not understand how I put in writing. That is what TCMA has always been in the aspect of throw and ground fight. I am not saying that this is the only correct way to view it, but that is how TCMArtists form the past has been choosen to view and how I organizing my training.
If you want to talk about the TCMA history, I think we should open another thread, it is OT here. It will be very long too, and I really hate history exams.
dsf
i think this is an example of miscommunication all i was trying to say is its possible for BJJ people to take cma people down to grapple with them!
Re: dsf
Originally posted by Le nOObi
i think this is an example of miscommunication all i was trying to say is its possible for BJJ people to take cma people down to grapple with them!
Agree, there is such chance. And TCMA are train to prevent such a chance in priority, to deal with such chance as back up. This is kind of main stream, generalized view of TCMA. There are some people in TCMA speciallized in ground fight too.
Competing in the UFC.
If you’re serious about competing in the UFC then get as much full contact sparring experience as you can and expose yourself to sparring against as many martial arts styles as possible.
Get your muscles used to fighting on the ground and know your escapes from submissions and bad positions (so you can carry on with your own course of action) because no matter what everyone else tells you, your going to spend at least half the fight time rolling and scrambling for position.
Remember cross training and exposure to different MA is the key. Don’t think that you cannot be taken down.
Other than that, good luck!
break timing - cloze distance - INTENT when striking
The idea of becoming the “Tai Chi” Heavyweight Champion of the World" is a very recent concept, probably of American origin. These arts were designed for the battlefield, and surival purposes.
As for why most fighters seem incompetent these days, I don’t think that is a failing of the martial art, moreover a failing of the ‘fighters’ themselves; so to answer your question, I would have to say, martial arts just ain’t what they used to be. Moreover, I believe we are seeing the reality of a breakdown in ability that probably always existed, with good or even exceptional fighters being fairly few and far between, regardless of style.
The Lei Tai platform challenge fights in pre revolutionary China, and competitions were far different than what we see today. These things basically had no rules, and were fought on a raised platform. People got killed in these events, or at least came out with something broken. The Chinese government banned this, and eventually formed Sanda. Traditional wushu stopped being sponsored, and was not designed for Sanda. But there were some exceptions like Yao Chengguang who in 1982 took part in one of the first of san da tournaments. But after the first fight, when he knocked his opponent out uncounciou in first round, he was forbidden participating in san da tournaments, because his explosive power was too powerful.
You da man, dredogg. Make Undercover Brother proud!
Stillness= Speed
one of the things that improve my speed was the use of still postures, I think I should do more of that.
Re: Competing in the UFC.
Originally posted by LiteBlu
[B]If you’re serious about competing in the UFC then get as much full contact sparring experience as you can and expose yourself to sparring against as many martial arts styles as possible.
Get your muscles used to fighting on the ground and know your escapes from submissions and bad positions (so you can carry on with your own course of action) because no matter what everyone else tells you, your going to spend at least half the fight time rolling and scrambling for position.
Remember cross training and exposure to different MA is the key. Don’t think that you cannot be taken down.
Other than that, good luck! [/B]
Last time I have just seen a vedio tape of one Japanese fighter (forgot his name) who defeated 4 Gracies, and he don’t really roll on the ground with them and mostly soft and relaxed, has many of tendon used in his moves. I think that is the correct direction against the ground rolling type for TCMA.
To have the way of not rolling on the ground styles is what TCMA is about, if rolling with them, It would become a BJJ or mixed MA.