“Everybody has a story to tell, just have to be honest enough to tell it and humble enough to listen.” (Ernie)
Oh Ernie, you ol’ Libra peace-maker…you.
Stop being so nice!
I’m gonna go ask a priest to hear my confession if you don’t stop this!
Geez…
Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
[B]“Because I don’t see most of those people you refer to “pressing” their “attitude” on others as much as defending the right to have a perspective and exchange ideas in a civil and decent way on this forum…” (KJ)
WELL I see that attitude as the height of hypocrisy and false pride - as it is usually these same people who can demonstrate nothing and explain nothing…
when the rubber really hits the road.
AND THEY DO “press their attitude” on others - and do it very often. [/B]
That hasn’t been as obvious to me as it apparently is to you, but it could be valid and I respect that as your observation and perception.
I personally don’t presume to know anyone’s soul or meaning here well enough to make the judgement call on hypocrisy, and I try to use care in judging present company on the basis of people and experiences past, or confusing them in my own mind as one and the same. More over, in the scheme of all my life’s priorities, this stuff simply ranks really low on the list. So I won’t be going there.
My bottom line is that everyone’s behavior contributes to the success or failure of this forum as an overall constructive venue of discussion. It’s not a matter of position, experience, or philosophy. Nor is it a matter of which issues ring with us respectively, or which battles we pick and choose. Success is, however, contingent on our behavior toward one another.
I highly recommend we all (you, me and everyone) see what we can do to lighten the atmosphere around here, and delve into things more productive. Cutting each other a little slack isn’t altogether a bad thing. Paul, bless his heart, has already got a major head start on us in leading by example.
There’s a lot to think about. Here’s to good will exchanges and brighter days ahead for all present and future forum members.
Regards,
- kj
Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
[B]“Everybody has a story to tell, just have to be honest enough to tell it and humble enough to listen.” (Ernie)
Oh Ernie, you ol’ Libra peace-maker…you.
Stop being so nice!
I’m gonna go ask a priest to hear my confession if you don’t stop this!
Geez… [/B]
Ha HA
man i’m just tired of all the silly $hit bother
miss the days when we broke things down and shared , we have such a kick a$$ chance to spread info with the internet
video clips and what not but people are head cases
i’m going to do my part behind the scenes with the more level headed cats
got tons of video and much more to film when i heal up
keep you in the loop player 
“It is not the failure of others to appreciate your abilities that should trouble you, but rather your failure to appreciate theirs.”
Confucius
Why are there so many differences from one Wing Chun Kung Fu family to the next? Because Wing Chun is based on principles and how they’re interpreted. Unlike techniques, which can be learned through repetition, a principle must be understood. While there are many ways to demonstrate principles, how they are interpreted may not always be the same. This is where the differences can be found. A slightly different interpretation of the principle can change greatly the way it is translated. Wing Chun is a thinking persons form of martial arts, even after you’ve learned the complete system, don’t be afriad to discovering your own interpretations.
Maybe I’ll just take a break from all of this for awhile…
will come back on in a few weeks when I’m ready to ask Phil to post the next set of clips on the VIDEO FOOTAGE thread.
I’ll be fighting Hulk Hogan on the first clip…
(Oops…Sorry…wasn’t supposed to devulge that information just yet).
Originally posted by Ernie
[B]as for gems
well like you since i have been exposed to kryptonite and my super human speed and power are reduced to slow painful motions
position and structure have been my saving grace
moving at half speed eating my way in slowly , pivoting on the point of contact , loading and becoming empty , using the negitive side of the the triangle [ free o pressure side ] instead of cutting angles
fun stuff [/B]
Good stuff Ernie. Even in something so seemingly small as this, you offer great food for thought and fodder for experimentation. That’s the sort of stuff I have to focus on of necessity, so can appreciate the kind of things you’re playing with. I’m confident that I’m a slower and more obtuse learner, though.
Another problem I recognize in myself is that I still “try too hard,” especially under pressure. I turn too much, enter too deep, give too much of my elbow away and expose it too much, etc. It all boils down to “greediness” or conversely some form of fear. It’s an endless road of working on it day by day; there is no perfection, just working endlessly to get better and better at the things within my grasp and a tad closer to those just beyond it. One of the things I’ve grown to enjoy and benefit from the most is learning by “losing” and exposing my own shortcomings, if that makes any sense.
Still have a looooonnnggg way and lots of “aha” moments to go. Fortunately I love the journey, despite the pains and frustrations along the way.
As for the kryptonite, boy can I relate to that. Hope you’re finding some improvement in that arm and shoulder. A slow go is better than no go.
Regards,
- kj
I like Wing Chun a great deal. It is an elegant, efficient and sophisticated system.
I came to it via a number of other styles. My first instructor, David Crook, practised an ecletic style of Kung-fu, influenced by a number of instructors, including William Cheung. David taught, and showed by example, that many styles can be effective and have a lot to offer. David went out of his way to build bridges with MAists of all backgrounds, and hosted regular training camps to allow stylistic sharing and mutual respect.
Even after 15 years in Wing Chun, I still see it as one branch of a vast tree. I just walked in off the street into this school, thought the instructor was good, and signed up. I didn’t make an oath at the crossroads at midnight that I would follow this path exclusively and defend somebody else’s ideas till I was blue on the face on internet forums to people I’ve never met.
I found another couple of styles I thought were so cool I had to do them. And I did.
As for a conspiracy to bash Wing Chun, life’s too short. I only talk about other styles and grappling on threads because people keep raising the subject and I have some knowledge and experience, plus I like it.
IMO too many put other styles like boxing and BJJ down to raise the profile of their own, which I think is intellectually dishonest and I argue against.
Some post obvious ignorance and rubbish about subjects in which I have some actual knowledge and experience, and I tell them they’re wrong.
If you want a support group or mutual admiration society to reinforce your beliefs, go join the Moonies.
This is an internet forum, what do you expect? You want to see how bad it could be, go to the VTAA forum.
Learning wing chun is easy. You can learn the whole system from different books and video tapes in about 3-6 months. Your problem is can you apply it against a resisting opponent.
The late Bruce Lee wanted to be the best fighter in the World. There was no secret that he wanted to be better than the late Wong Sheun Leung. He know more martial art systems than Wong Sheun Leung, but could he beat Wong Sheun Leung in a fight. The answer was no.
Mastering one system very well is much better than a person who know every martial arts in the world, but could not apply them - Jack of all trades and master of none.
To master and understand several different martial arts requires you to spend a much longer time testing and learn them. I would rather master one martial arts first before doing another one.
Hitman
Hitman,
Except for the speculation about Bruce and Wong, I agree with you. IME WCK is a very simple fighting method. By “simple”, I mean it has relatively few strategic and technical aspects, and can, as you indicated, be learned in a fairly short period of time. But I also have found that WSL was correct when he said “WCK is a great horse but few can ride her.” (The evidence overwhelmingly supports that!). What my experience has shown me is that unlike many other arts where one can have moderate skill levels and still use it effectively (like boxing or BJJ), with WCK one needs a very high level of development/skill to make it truly work (in a fighting situation, particularly against someone with better attributes). In other words, there is a high threshold level that one must meet in their personal skill level (or in relative skill level) before WCK will be effective. Sort of like catching a bullet with your teeth – if you can do it (which is extremely difficult), it’s amazing to behold. But, if you don’t have that high level of skill, you will fail miserably. This is why, for example, WCK typically has a poor showing when meeting other fighters, even those with much less training time. Put a moderately skilled boxer in with a moderately skilled WCK practitioner and the boxer will win easily. (One reason I don’t think WCK is a good choice for someone interested in self-defense).
T-Except for the speculation about Bruce and Wong
i heard that they had a race around the world
bruce could fly
and Wong could run very fast
Oh wait that was some other imaginary event the flash and super man;)
T-One reason I don’t think WCK is a good choice for someone interested in self-defense).
i can just see the WC marketing guru’s cringe , as all of a sudden the chi sau circles stop all at the same time around the world , they all look like they just woke up and walk out of the schools and in uniform lines of 2 like noah’s ark fill the local boxing gyms !!
brutal man 
funny but brutal
KJ
it really comes down to realestate position before power , often when we meet a reference point we can just use a very small shift in angle to cut or glide towards the goal
but when our bodies are hurt or much weaker we can not support the contact point so we must use footwork or the ability to bring the empty side in as a attack side
hit by email there are some cool BJD footwork idea’s that cut space and give you better lines when you can not support or get stuck [being greedy ]
Originally posted by Hitman
[B]Learning wing chun is easy. You can learn the whole system from different books and video tapes in about 3-6 months. Your problem is can you apply it against a resisting opponent.
The late Bruce Lee wanted to be the best fighter in the World. There was no secret that he wanted to be better than the late Wong Sheun Leung. He know more martial art systems than Wong Sheun Leung, but could he beat Wong Sheun Leung in a fight. The answer was no.
Mastering one system very well is much better than a person who know every martial arts in the world, but could not apply them - Jack of all trades and master of none.
To master and understand several different martial arts requires you to spend a much longer time testing and learn them. I would rather master one martial arts first before doing another one.
Hitman [/B]
Hitman, this may be of interest to you:
http://www.free-element.com/wingchun/WSL_BL.pdf
PR
Mr. Redmond, that is an excellent article, thank you for the post.
Darren Jew
Originally posted by anerlich
This is an internet forum, what do you expect? You want to see how bad it could be, go to the VTAA forum.
—Sure seems like we’re headed that way! Is that what we want? To see this forum become another VTAA forum? What do I expect? I expect to be treated civilly, not to be “labeled” and categorized unnecessarily, not to have my viewpoints belittled, and not to have someone laugh at me for expressing my very valid concerns about how things are often expressed here. I don’t think that is too much to ask for in polite conversation. And after all, that should be why we are all here…to engage in polite conversation…not to launch a crusade against everyone that doesn’t think exactly like we do. If this is to become like another VTAA forum, then you can count me out.
Keith
Originally posted by KPM
[B]—Sure seems like we’re headed that way! Is that what we want? To see this forum become another VTAA forum? What do I expect? I expect to be treated civilly, not to be “labeled” and categorized unnecessarily, not to have my viewpoints belittled, and not to have someone laugh at me for expressing my very valid concerns about how things are often expressed here. I don’t think that is too much to ask for in polite conversation. And after all, that should be why we are all here…to engage in polite conversation…not to launch a crusade against everyone that doesn’t think exactly like we do. If this is to become like another VTAA forum, then you can count me out.
Keith [/B]
I have to agree with you Doc. That VTAA forum is for losers. I don’t think this forum will ever get that bad.
PHIL
Originally posted by dej2
[B]Mr. Redmond, that is an excellent article, thank you for the post.
Darren Jew [/B]
You’re very welcome. Also note that when Bruce Lee asks WSL if he’ll ever be able to beat “Chang” he’s talking about Cheung Cheuk Hing (William Cheung). Chang is Mandarin for Cheung.
PR
There’s one line in there that stood out to me…
“It taught him that one cannot naturally become a successful man, one had to fight”
Basically saying that to acquire skill in fighting…one has to fight.
Simply put, from someone who everyone in the wing chun lineages knows was a fighter.
Originally posted by Vankuen
[B]There’s one line in there that stood out to me…
“It taught him that one cannot naturally become a successful man, one had to fight”
Basically saying that to acquire skill in fighting…one has to fight.
Simply put, from someone who everyone in the wing chun lineages knows was a fighter. [/B]
Good observation. The article also quotes WSL as saying,
“My opinion was to get combat experience was more important than any other thing”. But that’s because his goal was to fight. I understand that people do WC for various other reasons which are just as valid.
PR
Originally posted by Phil Redmond
Good observation. The article also quotes WSL as saying,
“My opinion was to get combat experience was more important than any other thing”. But that’s because his goal was to fight. I understand that people do WC for various other reasons which are just as valid.
PR
Then another question that comes from your post is, even though people join and practice the WC they do for various reasons, is it true or false to say that if you have high quality skills in whatever WC you practice, are you an effective fighter or person with effective self defense abilities?
James
sihing wrote:
Then another question that comes from your post is, even though people join and practice the WC they do for various reasons, is it true or false to say that if you have high quality skills in whatever WC you practice, are you an effective fighter or person with effective self defense abilities?
**Your reasoning is circular. How does one know if they have “high quality skills” other than by fighting? You see this is the problem – folks see some ability they or their sifu has outside of fighting, let’s say in chi sao or whatever, and conclude (assume) that those abilities will successfully transfer to fighting (and without any significant adjustment in how they are performed) and/or that that ability is all they will need to fight successfully (at a good level). So they beleive they have “good WCK skills” and that they will be able to fight well with them. Those assumptions are false. And genuine experience (fighting good people) will prove that to you. Good WCK skills are not some separate entity from good fighting skills – good WCK skills means good fighting skills using WCK’s tools and method. You can’t have good WCK without being a good fighter. And there is no way to know if one has good fighting skills (or to develop them) without fighitng.
**Also, self-defense abilities don’t rest significantly on WCK (or fighting) skills but are something else entirely and go well-beyond WCK. Moreoever, to develop skill in WCK is difficult and that investment isn’t necessary to simply learn to “defend oneself.” If someone wants to learn to “defend themselves” they would do much better than spend the time necessary to develop higher level empty-hand fighting skills – they should take an excellent self-defense course which will focus on the main aspects of self defense: situational awareness and response (what to do when someone pulls a gun on you and orders you into their car, for example), improvised weaponry, using surprise to their advantage, escapes, gradually becoming acclimated to dealing with high levels of physical stress, etc.
Originally posted by sihing
[B]Then another question that comes from your post is, even though people join and practice the WC they do for various reasons, is it true or false to say that if you have high quality skills in whatever WC you practice, are you an effective fighter or person with effective self defense abilities?
James [/B]
There are many X-factors in real combat/self defense but if the skills a person aquired in WC were geared towards actual combat then my answer would be yes. I don’t want people to think that I don’t like WC or that it isn’t effective. I do advocate hard and realistic training though.
PR