Which John was that?
Dont worry- I have seen wc competitions- where big names
were not exemplary in their behavior. No names.
No Problem
Hi Hunt 1,
No problem at all. Yes, it was a total shock at the time. I was sitting next to my teacher through the whole thing and it happened when I went to the bathroom by myself. Nearing came in behind and started a conversation. No big deal, I left the restroom and walked back into the gym. There was an event taking place directly in front of me so I stopped to watch it. Nearing came back in the gym at that time and came up along side of me and restarted the conversation. It was bizarre to say the least because before I knew it he was trying to get me to come to his school in Chicago and saying maybe I could even meet his sigung and see what real wing chung was like. I said no thanks, I already had a school and my sigung’s wing chun was very good. We discussed the competition briefly and I said that I didn’t understand the rules being used because one of our students lost when his opponent was constantly stepping back off balance. He asked if the following year I was going to enter the tourney. I said yes next year I will compete in Chi Sau. He then said, "Good because I don’t like your f****ing attitude. I turned to him and said, "I didn’t ask you what the fk you liked. He repeated his statement and I said why don’t you get the fk away from me then. That was when he struck. He used what my teacher called a compression hit–he struck simultaneously with his right palm behind my left ear and his left palm to the right side of my face. He then followed up with a right cross to the left side of my face (which knocked my glasses flying and sent my left arm across the right side of my body–pop can flying out of my hand). I had little control over my left arm as that was the arm that I had surgery on–I believe this is the motion that some people have mistakenly perceived to be an attack by me. I staggered backwards and he pursued grabbing the hood on my poncho–he pulled me in with a knee to the face. I partially blocked the knee and then I went in grabbing his waist. I moved him backwards a few feet until I regained my stability and picked him up off the ground. At this point I spun and propelled him into the bleachers on our left. I head butted him as we landed on the bleachers which is why his he had a cut above his right eye. I dragged him down the bleachers and pinned him against the rail–all the while he continued to hit me on the side of the skull (John Ervin told me this afterwards–I didn’t feel the hits because I wasn’t quite right in the head at the time. The next thing I knew four guys were pulling me off of him and forcing me to the ground. I did manage to regain my feet and turned to go back in–Nearing hadn’t moved, this is when my teacher showed up which acted like a cold glass of water on my mental state.
The campus security guards came and began to question me and Nearing in front of my Sifu and John Ervin Jr. who was the tournament holder. This is when he admitted he struck me first and then he tried to say I provoked it by flinching my arms toward him. This is a complete fabrication because such a movement would have been sheer pain due to my reconstructed elbow. At the time I couldn’t have consciously flinched my arm–it was nerve realignment surgery coupled with bone spur removal.
I have heard of people disparaging my Sifu by saying that he only became confrontational after the cops showed up (they weren’t cops but campus security guards). Look at it from his perspective, he is attending the tourney with a student he has barely known for 3 months. Said student gets into a fight with one of the featured Masters of the tourney. Until the facts came out he reserved his judgement as any sensible person would do. When Nearing said he hit me first is when he began to get angry. The campus guards took down our informantion and Nearing rounded up his students and promptly left the tourney and he hasn’t been back since. The campus security guards never filed a report…end of story.
I beleive Nearing thought I was my teacher’s prodigy or something when in truth I was a three month student who was 4 1/2 months removed from major reconstructive elbow surgery. I was in no position to fight…let alone take on a WC teacher with 17 years experience. I saw the tourney guide and had read his bio. Dude, I’m 5’9 and 135lbs…trust me, I wouldn’t have started a fight with him. Why would I seek to embarrass my Sifu in such a setting, for even then I was very commited to studying with him.
From time to time people will email me and say they heard this or that. Well that is what happened and I am tired of it already.
Just some thoughts,
Chris Snyder
Yuanfen,
That would be John Ervin Jr. of Wing Lam Kung Fu. He is the one who puts on the tourney every year. My teacher used to teach out of his building on the second floor. That is how I continued to have dialogue with him and his students–they were just downstairs from us at the time.
Regards,
Chris Snyder
Thanks for the info.
Chris,
Interesting story and sorry to hear you got on the wrong end of a bad situation.
Unfortunately, bull**** abounds. When my Sifu split from my (ex)Sigung, a rumour was going around that my Sifu had challenged him, they’d fought, and the Sigung had broken my Sifu’s leg. My Sifu was on crutches when the split occurred, but this was because he’d had surgery on his ankle to fix a problem related to a car accident ten years earlier (for which only now the surgicial techs to fix it were available). There was no challenge and the split took place in front of about 50 witnesses, and my Sifu would never have made a challenge at this time or any other, but people still quote this story as if it were gospel.
Chris.**** thats worse than any story someone could make up and I have no doubt its true.Very sorry to hear you were subjected to that.Glad you werent hurt.Now I am really happy I wasnt there.
you light up my life
hey chris,
1)im saying just what i “said”..am i not being clear?? i will reiterate…just because a “sifu” has good chi sao compared to a “student” doesnt mean the sifu is good. when a sifu rolls with a sifu..that is the real proof. red5angle put up the “challenge”..my point is that would prove if carl was good “in the big scheme of things” is if sifu went to try out his hands and not students. he put up the challenge in public..so i commented
- you only know what i allow you to know. why take advantage of private things i have talked to you about ..that is not "mo duk
…and i have only had 2 offical sifu…i dont consider "2 "many…and since ive moved to these parts ive only been to the vtm and your school…so what information are you basing your comment on??
i was addessing red…because of his comments,i have talked with red a bit in the past and have been on friendlyterms with him
3)who my teachers in wing chun,life or spiritual are, is my concern. iwant to join your school…you know what personal things i have gone through. and that was the only reason i didnt join…up till carl got mad at me…i still havnt addressed him because i havnt had thetime since getting back from florida. and i want to devote 100% to the conversation. perhaps he doesnt want to teach me due to my personel opinions…i dont know
4)what im saying is what i said..i think its clear…im glad to hear you took it easy on me..i gave the same curtisy. reread my comment " cant make it work when we spar"…did i spar with you or carl??? no..i didnt…so i wasnt talking about you …why do you want to look for something that isnt there?? if you want to come give me a refresher cource and you feel like thats what you need to do…carl has my address. and no…i wouldnt want to fight with carl…but like you,if i have to fight..im willing to take it to any level i have to
let me close by reiterating…just because someone has good chi sao..does not mean they can fight…just because someone can fight doesnt mean they have good chi sao…that is all i am saying.
and finally…havnt i always said publicaly how great carls chi sao is?? ive always backed you up because that is my belief. i thought we were friends…i find your tone in your post not friendly
so what are your cards??? my agenda is to be the best wing chun practioner i can be…i also strive for spirtual growth…as well as to over come personal demons…i also have a desire to help preserve the knowledge of yip man kung fu for the future generations and will do everything i can to contribute to that end.
brian scanlon
Misunderstanding Apparently
Hi Byond,
I misunderstood your intent behind your comments. Carl was not issuing a public challenge. Since Red5 is affiliated with us I thought the direction of your comments to be about Carl and my school specifically since you did indeed visit where I train personally. I offer my apology for this misconception. I did enjoy speaking with you during your visit to our school.
I also agree that just because someone’s chi sau skills are good doesn’t make them a good fighter or vise versa.
I have no hidden agenda nor do I harbor resentment towards you Brian. Email me offlist and we’ll talk further.
Sorry for the misunderstanding,
Chris Snyder
Hi Red5angel,
Originally posted by red5angel [B]
Hunt 1 - I have never met Francis, or for Planetwc sake, Wally or Lawrence.
“Therefore, red5 has no foundation upon which to make a comparison between himself, Carl, Ben, Ken and Francis.”
Hmmmmm, not sure what the point of this comment is but its inaccurate and an incorrect assumption. I would appreciate it if you did not make specific judgements on who I am or what I have or have not done. I have tried to do the same here although there was one slip, and I apologized for it.
[/B]
You haven’t made just ONE slip. :rolleyes: There is something very wrong in your perceptions if you haven’t seen it. Go back and re-read the kindly and well worded posts from Rene. And note that we are all aware that you have misquoted Planet Wing Chun above.
So, if you claim the previous statements are inaccurate, when have you met and touched hands with Ken or Ben? I don’t want to burst your bubble, but Ken Chung’s and Ben Der’s Wing Chun are orders of magnitude better than Carl’s. Carl is a good teacher, but if I were Carl, I would ask you to stop disseminating such offensive pronouncements and “challenges.’’ Surely, you agree that your teacher deserves to be represented in a way that reflects positively on the manner in which he teaches and the example he brings to his students through the way he communicates and lives.
[i] Many of you while pointing the finger are guilty of exactly the same things you are hammering on about. Do any of you find that a little odd?
[/B]
No. Don’t you find it odd?
[i] While my opinions may be strong, I am confident in my beliefs, you do not see me making accusations, and assumptions that I am not willing to back up or prove to you. [/B]
Yes we do see you making accusations and assumptions that you cannot prove. Too often. It’s incredible to encounter someone so unable to see themselves as others do.
[i] As for the seminar, feel free to come in and check it out. [/B]
I still don’t understand the nature of this invitation. Is the seminar free to outsiders? Aren’t there any space restrictions? How many can you accommodate, after all?
Your time would be better spent in practice than in arguing with everyone on this forum.
Regards,
Grendel
“It is the teacher’s responsibility to show the truth.” —Ken Chung
If I were a SiFu and had a student posting challenges in my name I would kick his ass! No offense… 
He would not be a student for very long.
I AM TYPING THIS IN LARGE LETTERS SO THAT ANYONE WHO IS STILL HAVING A PROBLEM UNDERSTANDING CAN TAKE THE TIME TO READ AND UNDERSTAND THIS IS NOT A CHALLENGE TO FIGHT!!! THIS WAS ALSO VERY CLEARLY PUT, NOT A CHALLENGE FOR CARL BUT PUT FORTH BY ME AND ME ALONE. IF THERE IS STILL ANY DOUBT AS TO WHAT THIS THREAD IS SUPPOSED TO BE PLEASE FEEL FREE TO EMAIL ME SO I CAN TYPE IN LARGE TYPE AGAIN TO EXPLAIN IT.
Now that that is hopefully clear, Grendel, please dont try to explain to me anything without being in full posession of the facts and actually reading the post before you reply. The misquote from planetwc is a cut and paste, but thank you for playing. Yes I am also aware that Ken is light years beyond Carl, but Carl works hard at trying to attain that level as should we all.
I read Renes post, and am familiar with Rene, he is probably arguably the most intelligent poster on this forum, and I replied to him in a freindly manner explaining my point of view.
If there is any confusion Grendel I would be happy to discuss it, but please dont make a fool out of yourself by trying to make a fool out of me with inaccurate statements on what I have or have not messed up.
I’ve rarely read such a load of bs.
r5a: nobody was attacking you or your precious sifu/sigung. You posted a ridiculously worded but well-meaning challenge. And then got on the highest horse in town. Some people offered you friendly advice, some not so friendly, and not only was hunt1 not attacking you with his comment about Ben Der, but planetwc was trying to back you up (read their comments again…)
So quit writing IN LARGE LETTERS, you imperious twat.
I’m really happy you have a good sigung and sifu. I’d love to be able to come.
Personally I’d like to train with as many good sifu as I can… not because I’m not satisfied but because it would be a great way to learn.
But I’m starting to think I’m not going to want to train with anyone I’ve heard of on this forum! And I’m starting to see why my first sifu (who was a good martial artist and a humble man) now lives in relative seclusion, having been estranged by the politics in wc.
Chris, fair play to you for continuing your wc after such a load of crap. (And here’s that word that people write in an attempt to undo the bs that they write: I mean it BTW) Peace.
red5angel
Any chance you’ll find yourself in Toronto?
you gotta be kidding
should be “returnofthewhip”
Beating a dead horse
Hello,
I have been trying to sit back and watch more of late. This thread though seems to have run its course and is just acting to stir up too much potential for negativity. There seems little point to keep it going. Enough has been said already, perhaps too much.
With this in mind I am closing this thread. As always anyone wishing to discuss this is welcome to e-mail me.
Peace,
Dave
sihing73@juno.com