An explanation of the Ancient Secrets of Long Boxing, eight gate five steps
By Chu Ba Dao Shi (from my Father’s old notes) translated by Chu Yuk-Hing 2006
The compass is the four cardinal point and the four diagonal points. The body has the eight Gua trigrams and the feet step out the five elements, which allow us to control the eight directions. All together there are thirteen postures or shi . The five phases correspond to advance, fire, retreat, water, gaze left, wood, look right, metal and central balance, earth. In central earth the feet develop root, like a tree. Earth develops the central balance root the standing juang gong .There are different methods from other Pai (Schools of thought).
Then you must study the four sides, it requires much time to perfect them, or else your effort will be in vain. The hand techniques are very wide and expansive. When your form becomes very compact then your movements are free then you have attained the middle and advanced levels of long boxing, or chang chuan.
In Tui So we learn sticking, adhering, connecting and following. We have natural progress to reach interpreting energy. In this way we can use four once to repulse one thousand pounds. We understand sticking energy and develop good seeing and hearing energy, ting gong . Chi and blood are very important to understand chi blood that expresses itself in internal strength. Circulating chi is difficult with out the help of a good teacher-guide. If you can control your opponents membranes his blood will not flow freely. If you grab your opponents blood vessels his chi will have difficulty in circulating, not flow freely. If you attack your opponents acupuncture points . Sealing the death points terminates his life. This is called dian mai . The ancients said “ there are life and death acupoints but to learn them requires oral transmission. One because of the difficulty of learning, two because it relates to life and death and it depends on the character of the individual.
One must not teach those who are not loyal and filial.
One must not teach those who do not have a good background.
One must not teach those with evil intentions.
One must not teach those who are careless or crude.
One must not teach those who have no consideration for others.
One must not teach those who are outwardly polite but not compassionate.
One must not teach those who are not reliable.
One must not teach those who are quick to learn and quick to forget. It is important to know the eight disqualifications; as for criminals they need not even to be mentioned. Those who do qualify may be given the secret transmissions orally.
You may teach those who are loyal and filial, emotionally stable, faithful to the teaching, respectful to the teaching, and always consistent. Given these five qualities, if a student is truly consistent from beginning to end and never waivers, you may transmit every aspect of the art. From generation to generation this is the way of the transmission.
A little on the cryptic side of course with talk of elements etc etc.
As for the ultra nationalistic confucian ideals set out at the end, well, I guess if that’s how someone wants to be that’s ok. A little uptight though and indicative of a resistance to change depending how far you want to read into it.
I gotta be honest in saying I find nothing of value in regards to tangible martial knowledge that can be applied through a shown method in these notes.
Chu it’s good of you to share your father’s notes with us.
I think the notes are just as valuable for there cultural content not just there martial.
Even when dealing with people on here I would heed the following.
One must not teach those who are not loyal and filial.
One must not teach those who do not have a good background.
One must not teach those with evil intentions.
One must not teach those who are careless or crude.
One must not teach those who have no consideration for others.
One must not teach those who are outwardly polite but not compassionate.
One must not teach those who are not reliable.
Some people would love to posses such material as humble as it is
Wow! Thank You Chu and Yuk Hing! There was a world of martial knowledge in this documentation. I am surprised that a master would give such high knowledge to the outside world.
Jamieson, with 7000 posts you should have realized the importance of this information. I have just began studying and I understand. I will continue reading your postings chu. I know I can learn a lot from you.
The Changquan Bamen Wuxing (Shi San Shi) are common throughout the neijiaquan descendant styles such as Songxi neijiaquan and Dumenquan and popularly available. The methods are the basics of that school of practice.
These also correlate to some schools of taijiquan as well.
thats about the best description of long boxing i have seen yet. may be you could systemize it even more by relating the five style steps to walking the circle which would just be four exchanges of sides instead of two. two excanges gives you a straight line of two people exchangeing sides if you move to the 90 instead of the 180 you get a circle..
Hmmm, rereading the notes, I believe they are notes on the Chao family Taiji. Again, very good. I have a diagram of the Chao families 64 move form (It’s basically the 8 original Taiji postures done in the 8 gates with some additional footwork to represent retreating), I believe these notes couraspond to the diagram, and are probably part of the manual that covers that section of Chao family Taiji Quan.
The 64 move form is the core fundemental set of Chao Taiji, as it contains all the basics, and fundemental principals of the style. the 37 move form, and the longer set (I don’t know how many moves, 108?), are expansions on the core principals and show them as applied to a large variety of movement.
The Chao Taiji system is a Very good, but rather rare Taiji method. It’s not seen very often.
lol. Look, don’t nobody get yer panties in a bunch, but let me say this Sal, If you think there are only 13 postures, then you are severly limiting yourself. the postures that we can do as humans are virtually infinite and with variation in everyone according to their body.
anyway, there is nothing there that can’t be scratched from the esoteric musings in any kungfu magazine on the shelves.
First of all, it’s a note that is personal and for one persons understanding. It will not improve your ability to read it.
cardinal directions? diagonal directions on a compass? the feet step out the five elements? Tell how that metes out as valuable information? This is not geography and yes you gotta look left and right to be aware in a situational sense, but do you really need to be told that? Or is it self evident?
If it was along the lines of “bring the arms closer and keep the elbows down”, don’t expose your crotch by being to large in stance, never turn your back on your enemy and never let your gaze fall away from your enemy etc etc etc, this in my opinion would be something of value, but a lesson in geography and elements doesn’t amount to anything in martial training.
If you have the chart it goes with, like I do, it is a basic description of the Chao family’s fundemental 8 gates (64 move) form. It makes sense to me, because I know some Chao family Taiji.
In all honesty, I don’t completely understand the chart, but with knowing the form itself, and refrencing the stepping patterns shown in the chart, the “old notes” make sense to me.
Thanks for sharing the chart, Royal Dragon. It’s a nice chart with lots of info. It’s a chart easy enough to read with or without the form.
I think both sides have a point. Frankly, both of you are right. So… may be we could just leave the arguement and move on to information exchange which I am sure will be more productive and a lot of others would love to see this thread go in the positive direction that it is going. Just a thought…
That chart looks amazing Royal Dragon. What book is that from? Where did you get it?
Jamieson, Chu’s words are mystical and to be understood by a true kungfu master. Only through proper teaching from a real master such as Chu, would someone decipher the true fighting style and be greater than any american boxer. Obviously there is much that goes into Chu’s art that we are not seeing. So you keep practicing your american boxing teachings and become as good as those fighters in the octagon. I have had enough of your style basic kickboxing teachings. I am ready to progress to a higher form of the art, where every apect is explained through symmetrical balance. It is obvious to me that you are not a true master because you would appreciate these notes he has given.
That chart looks amazing Royal Dragon. What book is that from? Where did you get it?
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The chart is from my own personal collection.
>>Jamieson, Chu’s words are mystical and to be understood by a true kungfu master. Only through proper teaching from a real master such as Chu, would someone decipher the true fighting style and be greater than any american boxer.
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I have to side with Jamieson. Every art has sill, and untill you have the skill to begin with, the chart means nothing.
>>Obviously there is much that goes into Chu’s art that we are not seeing.
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This is correct.
>> So you keep practicing your american boxing teachings and become as good as those fighters in the octagon. I have had enough of your style basic kickboxing teachings. I am ready to progress to a higher form of the art, where every apect is explained through symmetrical balance. It is obvious to me that you are not a true master because you would appreciate these notes he has given.
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David Jamieson has been around for a very long time. I would not sell his perspective short. To many masters, the written texts mean very little, because they themselves are the embodiment of the style. To one who has that, the texts are not nessasary. To one who does not have that, the texts are not comprehendable. They are only of use to those in the middle, and those seeking insite into what they already know. It could be said that the notes are a teaching aid for those who are ready for the next level.
I for one would be more interested in Chu’s physical knowledge, than the notes. I especially would like to see his Taiji Ruler system.
and i do think there is nothing unpositive or untowards in regards for pointing out what I’ve pointed out.
the terms are antiquated and not suitable much anymore.
There’s a lot of feng shui and confucianism tossed in in heaping helpings and I don’t see how those truly serve the preservation of the arts other than they have been this add in for some time and usually to promote an agenda that is apart from the actual study of martial art.
so it is part of a dichotomy that exists in martial arts, in particular those of asia.
I think it is less helpful and more of a quagmire to take this type of approach.
Now, this says nothing of the value of the actual martial art it pertains too.
What’s most important is not the trappings and mystical doings but rather the actual method and actual doing.
I don’t read method and I don’t see reading text as “doing” martial art and as an individual I find confucianism while pious and honorable to be litrtle more than a control mechanism for one set of society over another and forced order where there perhaps isn’t a need.
But like I said, this is only my opinion and it’s only pertaining to the above note as it is laid out.
