I’m curious. Is northern Tai Tzu Chang Quan taught in the U.S? Are there reputable instructors of good lineage within the continental 48 states? What forms does Tai Tzu Chang Quan consist of? Are there weapon as well as bare hand forms, or is the system strictly bare-hand? Is there media available in which Tai Tzu Chang Quan is demonstrated?
Royal Dragon in
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Yes, there is legit Tai tzu in the USA, it’s just not common.
I know MAster gus Rubio out of Miami has a very good tai Tzu system. One of his seniors is our very own Sifu Abel, so you may want to shoot him a PM, and I have been able to collect and authenticate a good amount of it from various lineages too.
The style has both emptyhand, and weapons forms.
If you google Tai Tzu Chang Chuan, you will find plumb productions, and http://www.cmaod.com/ have VCD’S with the original form, and a few others.
Also, here is a clip of one branch’s Tai Tzu Chang Chuan form so you can see what it looks like. This set is common in Taiwan.
As taught by my father, the real secret is not in the names of the forms, but the diagrams and the Gua then the correspondences. Names are for sections only. All “Tai Tzu” means is Grand Progenitor (Supreme Ancestor/ The Founder of the Dynasty) NO OTHER MEANING. Genghis Khan was called Tai Tzu Genghis Khan founder of Yuan Dynasty. Over all this is called Jing Yan Pai (Emperical method).
From my family style, with out Gua there is nothing. 18 family styles came from this style and was used first by family then body guards and then army. Chang San Feng was not the founder of Taiji, it was founded by Chu family arts in the Chu Pao Fortress then taught General Chen. Geat amount of information to be told.
Great forum to learn, but be cautious of people.
Yuk-Hing
Thank you for your responses to my question. I’ve found the 32 move Tai Tzu form I’ve seen to be graceful and flowing with many good techniques. It resembles a combination of Hong “Red” fist boxing and Mi Zong without the “pauses” or “poses”. All this within a relatively short form. I’m interested in learning more about this system. I’m particularly interested in the variations practiced in Hebei Prov. and Taiwan.
Chu, I followed your post for the most part, but I’m confused about what you mean by Gua. What are Gua? Do you mean diagrams as in illustrations, followed by the Gua, and then correspondence as I’m corresponding with you now? Is Gua specific to Tai Tzu or is it a general CMA concept?
I belive the comercially avaliable tai tzu tape is only the first road of that form. The rest has not been released by Shaolin as of yet (That I know of anyway). I hear it’s written in the manuals, but only the names of the postures are listed, no transitions.
Does ShaoLin keep all records of all the forms? If it is just the names of the postures how do they know the form? Maybe only the high priests know of the forms. Where can I get tapes from ShaoLin of Tai Tzu Chang Chuan?
Wing lam has them, as does plumb productions. You can also find VCD’s of the form here www.cmaod.com
I am sure that the Monks know the whole set.
I’m still curious. What does “Gua” mean? Is it a term that applies only to Tai Tzu Quan, or is it a general CMA concept?
lmao. i was thinking that as soon as i started reading the question
i am assuming that the gua are the trigrams from the i ching. the same ones from baguazhang. but i could be wrong since i am not familiar with tai tzu.
Tai Zu Chang Quan
There are different variations of Tai Zu chang Quan even in Taiwan. The Tai Zu Chang Quan that I practice has three forms there is Tai Zu Chang Quan yi lu (first road), Tai Zu Chang Quan er lu ( second road), and Tai Zu chang quan dui da (two man form). My Grandmaster moved from Shandong to Taiwan and taught in Taiwan. The forms that we practice are unique and I haven’t seen them anywhere else besides students of my Grandmaster in Taiwan and my father.
shaolinche,
One of these days, we are going to have to hook up. I would love to see those sets!
Thank you Shaolinche for your very direct and non-esoteric answers. I think if more people skilled in Tai Tzu Quan would share even basic knowledge, it would deny charlatans the ability to lay claim to knowledge they don’t have, and lineage that doesn’t exist. I think the various branches, and lineages of Tai Tzu Quan are not quite as rare as some would have us believe. It’s only that not many qualified to teach have come together to preserve the knowledge in a systematic way.
word.
and that’s a microcosm of the whole problem with TCMA.
Tai Tzu is rather common in China, and Taiwan, just not in the US. Even that being said, there is more of it here than meets the eye.
Tai Tzu was spread VERY prolifically through the military during the Ming dynasty. It was also spread by the Chao family, and the Shaolin temple during the Sung dynasty.
Because of this, there were many, many lines. Tai Tzu is probably the widest spread Chinese art there is. Because of this, complete Tai Tzu lines vary in size and curriculem, and each has it’s own evolution. Some branches today are just a single form. Many are three forms, or one form taught in 3 sections. Some are 10 or 12 sets, others still are 2 forms, the original 32, and one really HUGE set that is 18 sections long (common in Hubei i believe)
All branches are very similar despite the size though. You can see by the flavor,and the presence of several, to all of the original 32 techniques in every form. You can’t just do a modern Chin Woo form, and call it Tai Tzu because both are Long fist. Tai Tzu has distinct techniques and flavor found in every form. You also can’t do Tai Chi, and call it Tai Tzu. The arts are too different.
lamakwoklee,
> Is northern Tai Tzu Chang Quan taught in the U.S?
Yes, there are some Long Fist people are teaching in US.
Our Long Fist has a form called Tai Tzu Chang Chuan (Tai Tzu Long Fist). It is a form shown by Royal Dragon, http://www.yangsandover.com/videos.shtml?page=Li1. it is not a system. The Tai Tzu 1st and 2end forms shaolinche practicing are also forms not a system. In Taiwan, there is a southern shaolin system called Tai Tzu Chuan. That is a system and has empty forms and weapons. The system was from Fu Jian province a centry ago or maybe longer.
I have seen from a tape shown northern shaolin form with Tai Tzu Chan Chuan 1st and 2end forms too. It’s different from our version.
Chinese like to name their forms after something or someone famous.
Cheers,
Again thank you to those who’ve provided helpful commentary, and information. I believe the more knowledge that’s put out about authenitc Tai Tzu Quan the better for the art. I’m still rather hazy about what Northern Tai Tzu Chang Quan consists of, and the location of Qualified instructors. For instance is there a Tai Tzu version of Pong Lai, or Wu Tang?
I don’t know about Pong Lai version of it. But, if their Tai Tzu Chang Chuan was from Long Fist in Taiwan, then it is our version. I believe Wu Tang’s version is ours since several people like Adam Hsu in Wu Tang was Long Fist people. They learned their Tai Tzu Chang Chuan through their senior LF brothers. Our version is the most taught Tai Tzu Chang Chuan in Taiwan and probably here in states also. I’m not saying it is the best, simply because there are more teachers teaching LF in Taiwan, especially in 1960-1990.
Cheers,
Oops! I was writing in a hurry so i didn’t define, and limit context the way I usually do. I didn’t literally mean a Pong Lai or Wutang version of Tai Tzu Quan. I meant is there an organization whose mission is specifically to do for Tai Tzu Quan what Pong Lai and Wu Tang do for Praying Mantis.