Originally posted by Tainan Mantis What westerner has a PHD in Asian MA history?
There are a lot of PhD’s in Chinese history, the person doesn’t need to have specialized in MA history to be able to assist you and help you authenticate document.
I am in the process of creating my own library of resources to pull from for my personal research, but my original emphasis was not focused just on PM, so in truth I have very little information about PM.
During life, my Sifu (Lai Sifu) wasn’t too big on worrying about the history of PM or researching the origins of a set. The research he did, that he made know to me at least, was focused on the efficiency of a technique and what the possible counters were (rather useful lines of research for a MA practitioner). I do not know if he had a love for the history of PM that he just didn’t share with me (but maybe he shared with the other students), but since he has passed away I have no way of asking him.
In conversations with my other classmates, the only history they seem aware of are the old “stories” about the origin of the style and the “Who begot Whom” of the lineage. No one seems to have looked at where or when a set was added.
Look at the editiorial board and try contacting a few. You’ll find that many hold graduate degrees, some with doctorates in a variety of fields, and you can probably locate them and write to them. Academic careers don’t pay much—you buy a lifestyle and thats always an important factor to keep in mind but the work is always interesting because you determine what it will be. [/B]
Thank you for the idea. I will follow up on contacting them.
Personally, Chinese history and Chinese martial arts are pretty much inseperable. The scales may be different but they are connected. Of course the reasons to document dates, events, etc must appear to those who work on the documention. Many systems and styles were products of times. As we look into Chinese history we also get to see that CMA is about evolution and not creationism. For example, General Chi of Ming dynasty (1500s) documented martial arts that deemed useful for the military at the time. Styles that he mentioned were as far back as Song dynasty (906-1279 CE). Later in Qing dynasty around 1700s plenty of style flourished including Tanglangquan as we know it. Style such as Wutzuquan (5 ancestors fist) was developed out of 5 styles (Taitzu, Louhan, Damo, Monkey, and Wing Chun white Crane) related to Shaolin in one way or another. BTW Wing Chun is a county in Fujian province where General Chi stationed before. The father of the founder of Wing Chun White Crane (another Qing dynasty period creation) was said to be a Shaolin stylist. There could be a possibility that Shaolin temple’s military arm was station there. Ming dynasty’s military structure includes monk armies which shaolin temple monk soldiers happened to be among them. Therefore, we have the legends of Southern Shaolin, Wing Chun, etc… The famous Six Harmony Spear, if I am not mistaken, was of Six Harmony style (aka Shaolin Weitomen). General Chi studied this and taught it to the soldiers. To further this, we know that Karate came from martial arts in Fujian but the seed was planted during the Japanese pirates invasion and General Chi was there to suppress them.
All in all, I am all for reseach in CMA. If it takes PhDs to do it, by all means. I think it is about time that people take Martial Arts seriously as a study subject. If sports including dancing (I know it should be performing art ) Why can’t we have PhD degree for martial arts? In fact, I think we should first start with a MA channel. Just think of all the cheezy kung fu flicks and yours truely be the Kung Fu talk show host. Just imagine the lineage feuds … Jerry Springer, watch out! :eek:
RAF,
Your idea of looking at the editorial board sounds good.
MA played a crucial rule in all aspects of Chinese history.
Although it was so important, it is odd that most history books don’t give it its’ due importance.
Problem is that most historians don’t study MA. This is especially true in Asia or Taiwan.
Here MA has/had a strong connection with Anti government, criminal organizations.
Though this has been changing especially since the lifting of martial law.
Though the perception that the public has is often different from the way it really is.
For example, most legit masters will not teach criminals.
But the perception that common folk has still exists.
For example, My shrfu was beaten with a stick for studying kung fu when he was a teenager.
His parents feared MA was a doorway to the mafia.
Monks who know kung fu are sometimes retired gangsters who quit the business or they are hucksters.
You make a lot of money chanting for the dead here.
This is from what I have seen or heard in first hand accounts.
In one case, I was sitting next to a monk, he threatened to kick my ass if I took another chicken breast.
Albino,
If you come up with something interesting be sure and share it.
Supposedly WHF had a copy of some of the oldest PM documents.
His 18 Luohan Gung gupu was not completely published.
It has a clear reference to ancient history, including a novel that was famous in the Yuan dynasty, Xi Shuang Ji.
It could be that we’d end up increasing the ratings on Springer
Tainan Mantis,
If I do come up with anything, I will definitely let everyone know. If for no other reason then the fact that in most other research arenas, the researchers publish their work in peer-reviewed journals so that others can weigh in and look for holes in the research. It sort of leaves you vulnerable, but if you have really done your homework and covered all avenues properly, then your peers won’t be able to punch holes (pun intended) in your theories.
Publishing in a peer-reviewed journal also gives you a date/time stamp as it were, so other people would have difficulty stealing your research and capitalizing on it.
If someone were to be industrious enough to start a peer-review program within the Martial Arts Community, the problem that we’d face it getting peers who are of an appropriate level (i.e. Masters or PhD). We could start with just having anyone who wants to weigh in, get the ball rolling, and then as time goes on, as a group help the people industrious enough to get a Masters and/PhD program started at their college of choice. That could be one way to bring MA history studies into the mainstream academia. Lets face it Psychology didn’t really exist before Freud (a MD mind you) started documenting and testing his theories.
If the board feels it’s a worthy endeavor, I am willing to try pitching the idea to Kung Fu Mag (unless someone on this board has good connections with them, in which case I would as that they do the pitching). If people don’t care, or don’t feel it would be beneficial, then I won’t.
Well, I wish I had this interest in the martial arts when I started my graduate program (I worked with underground coal miners).
I was asked by my teacher to help write in 1997 and also retrained in International Management and Business. I haven’t quite found a way to leverage my martial arts interest with my academic interest in China.
Ph.D.s have pluses and minuses but I got tired of all the BS in taijiquan etc. etc.. It looks like praying mantis hasn’t been distorted as much with all the mystical/commercial baggage found in the areas we call roughly call “internal”.
I am not a praying mantis practitioner any longer but still have great respect and appreciation for it (much more than when I studied it from about 1987 to 1997).
So good luck! It just seems that praying mantis can really be made one of the respectable, competitive martial arts systems for the world. It really, as a system, give taekwando and karate a run for their money.
) Why can’t we have PhD degree for martial arts? In fact, I think we should first start with a MA channel. Just think of all the cheezy kung fu flicks and yours truely be the Kung Fu talk show host. Just imagine the lineage feuds … Jerry Springer, watch out! 
:eek:
or 
from everyone.