I’ve been researching CMA history for many years and my articles are in various KF mags, including this one (Kung Fu magazine).
I find it interesting about Tang Lang, that when the names of the 18 masters and their styles are reviewed, they are all from the Sung Dynasty time period.
Which adds credence to the theorygoing around a few yearts ago that Tang Lang actually got its start during the Sung Dynasty (early part) and not Qing dynasty.
2 or 3 of the 18 names are students of Monk Zhao Tong, who is known for being General Yueh Fei’s teacher.
He taught Ba Shan Fan (now called Fantzi Quan).
Also, the classic hooked Mantis hand can be found in various forms from the Yueh Fei style.
As far as my understanding goes, the 18 Families Sonnet originally came from “Luohan Xing Gong Duan Da Tuo Pu” (Arhat exercising merit short strike illustrated manuscripts). The manuscript has many versions which includes one called Shaolin Yi Bol Zhen Chuan (Shaolin Authentics).
Some scholars suggested that Luohan Xing Gong Duan Da Tuo Pu (herein known as the manuscript) is in fact a body of work reflecting the indigenous folk martial arts knowledge in the Province of Shandong around the mid 1700s. It is believed that the author, Shengxiao Daoren, cleverly borrowed the Shaolin fame. The 18 families sonnet actually are styles that are recorded in various Ming dynasty martial art books and could readily be found in Shandong. Shengxiao Daoren could have been a native of Shandong (west of Lao Shan, Qingdao). He also seemed to be a very travelled person. In the introduction of a later edition, he or his student claimed that the original copy of the manuscripts was “taken” by one of SXDR’s students in capital of then Manchurian territeries (modern day ShengYang).
I believe the Luohan Xing Gong Duan Da as a style might have something to do with White Lotus cult or its derivatives due to the concepts and terms that are used to formulate the theory of the “style” - the so called Louhan Xing Gong Duan Da otherwise almost synonymous with Tanglang Fanche Which contains 7 front routines plus 2 auxiliary and 9 rear routines total of 18 (coincidence or deliberate design?). BTW, it is not just 16 routines as many have mantained IMHO. The 16 routines idea IMHO is probably “promoted” to explain the version that is “found” in the Shaolin temple that has only 16 routines. The author seemed to have studied Confucian. He quoted Mengzi a lot. He also had extensive knowledge of Yijing (Classics of Change) and quoted also something from Zhuangzi as well. In one of the volumes, that’s the 18 Luohan Gong, the text actually mocked Buddhist monk order and borrowed many Yuan and Ming dynasty famous operas and novels tales (ie Water Margin). It would be hard to believe this is a work handed down by a Shaolin monk.
Personally, I believe there is an intimate relationship between Fanziquan (or its veriations) and White Lotus cult martial arts. There is also an intimate relationship between Tanglang (especially TJPM) and Fanzi IMHO. I think the case for Yue Fei taught Fanzi and its being “Shaolin authentic” (pardon the pun) is more a modern day political twist to give more MA centralization to the Henan Shaolin (we all know how much the mighty tourist dallors is worth.)
Thanks very much for that insight, much appreciated.
Those that claim Abbott Fu Ju, at Shandong Shaolin (later destroyed) temple, brought together the 18 masters (number is symbolic of course) during Sung Dynasty (during its end, when the Jin were taking over), say there is sung dynasty era
documentation from Shaolin that contains the list of people/styles as well.
Hmm, Fantzi (ba shan fan as it was called in ancient times) is known as a regular people’s martial arts, like the farmers, peasants, etc.
It would seem to be a likely candidate then for White lotus, being anti-Qing rule, would adopt it.
Also, Dung Hai Chuan, Ba Qua founder, had learned Ba Shan Fan from his relatives, and he was also a member of a rebel secret society group, yes?
Does anyone have more info about Monk (if he really was one) Zhou Tong (dozens of variations of spelling seen for his name).
Who his teacher was? If he really is documented to be Yueh Fei’s martial art teacher (spear, archery, etc).
Whatever other facts known about him?
Some people believe Tang Lang was created to beat the Shaolin monks.
Why?
By whom?
It for sure has Tai Tzu Quan and Tong Bei as it’s base, because I have seen Tai Tzu Quan forms that look so much like Mantis you wouldn’t know the difference if someone didn’t tell you it was Tai tzu.
And the Tong Bei moves in Tang Lang Quan are pretty obvious.
The Ba Shan Fan moves in tang lang quan are easy to find as well.
Tai Tzu shares the Monkey stepping as well with tang lang quan.
You are most welcome. I appreciate the subject that you brought up. I think very few people have go to the extend of research that you have. So I appreciate your sharing as well.
Those that claim Abbott Fu Ju, at Shandong Shaolin (later destroyed) temple, brought together the 18 masters (number is symbolic of course) during Sung Dynasty (during its end, when the Jin were taking over), say there is sung dynasty era
documentation from Shaolin that contains the list of people/styles as well.
Fu Ju in the manuscript is believed to be a rendition of Fu Yu (1242 CE) the actually monk who headed the debate between the Budhists and the Daoist and sucessfully regained all the Budhist temples previously occupied by the Daoist. Yuan dynasty (mongolians) respects Buddhism. It’s not likely that they would do harm to the Buddhist order. I am not sure about the Jin though so…
Regarding the 18 masters, I believe you need to give a clear stance on whether it is actually those 18 masters (in names and persons) as written in the manuscript or it is a symbolic number only. This makes a huge difference. Personally, I would agreed that it is symbolic in nature and the master’s names aren’t really that important but the styles are important.
As for the Song Dynasty document, I have never seen it. Is it authenticated by a reliable scholitic source?
Hmm, Fantzi (ba shan fan as it was called in ancient times) is known as a regular people’s martial arts, like the farmers, peasants, etc.
It would seem to be a likely candidate then for White lotus, being anti-Qing rule, would adopt it.
Agreed
Also, Dung Hai Chuan, Ba Qua founder, had learned Ba Shan Fan from his relatives, and he was also a member of a rebel secret society group, yes?
I believe Dung Hai Chuan, was a member of Ba Qua Jiao (8 Trigram Cult) which was a derivative of White Lotus. BQJ later became the Yihe Quan (Righteous Harmory Fist).
Does anyone have more info about Monk (if he really was one) Zhou Tong (dozens of variations of spelling seen for his name).
Regarding this, I would point to the fact that there is a novel about the life and time of Yue Fei. I used to have it when I was in Hong Kong but I lost it when I moved to Canada. So we have to take into consideration that some tales may be ficticous.
Who his teacher was? If he really is documented to be Yueh Fei’s martial art teacher (spear, archery, etc).
Whatever other facts known about him?
I don’t have an answer or theory on that neither.
Some people believe Tang Lang was created to beat the Shaolin monks.
Why?
I believe this is a spin that came from the 18 families sonnet. Depending of the version, line 17 or line 18 either said Wang Lang’s mantis subdue enemy or Wang Lang’s mantis conquers all (mostly Mantis’ own version which is understandably biased). There used to be a story by the Qingdao contingent that said the late Ming and early Qing rebel named Yu Qi who escaped to Shaolin temple after his failed attempt, was the supposed Wang Lang but this has been proven not true lately.
By whom?
In the manuscript, it seemed to suggest Wang Lang. But mainly is found in the 18 families sonnet.
It for sure has Tai Tzu Quan and Tong Bei as it’s base, because I have seen Tai Tzu Quan forms that look so much like Mantis you wouldn’t know the difference if someone didn’t tell you it was Tai tzu.
And the Tong Bei moves in Tang Lang Quan are pretty obvious.
The Ba Shan Fan moves in tang lang quan are easy to find as well.
Tai Tzu shares the Monkey stepping as well with tang lang quan.
I am a bit press on time so I will quote something that I wrote relating to this
I am not as well versed as you guys and I must say that I appreciate the discussion, I am learning a lot.
I thought Yan Qing and Lin Chong were both folk characters out of the novel Outlaws of the Marsh. Also earlier this year someone wrote about another of the characters being from a Chinese Opera placed in the Song Dynasty.
Also, in order to accept the Song Dynasty timeframe don’t you have to accept the several hundred year period when no one practiced Mantis Boxing. That this ultimate system was created at Shaolin then no one practiced it.
Finally, I have read often that no mantis boxing can be found anywhere near Shaolin, only in Shandong. It is strange the even the founder did not spread the art, if not Shaolin.
Again I appreciate everyone’s contribution to the discussion. Mine is not so much but here it is.
From what I have been researching, it is very doubtful that Shaolin from Henan developed this.
When they say Shaolin, by the time of the Sung Dynasty, there was more than one satellite temple connected to the Henan temple.
Fu Ju was the abbott, but he was sent to Shandong province area.
The gap in historical records from after the Sung dynasty not only effects info on Tang Lang history, but also Xin Yi Quan history, and even Henan Shaolin forms history.
Anyone ever associated with Tang Lang is somone from Shandong, all the styles associated are from Shandong.
If you look at Sung Dynasty era styles from Shandong, for example Di Tang, (earthquake style), it’s forms (not it’s more famous ground fighting forms) like
Wu Chang Quan (Five hand) has many N Mantis like leg movements, stepping patterns, stances, etc.
Tai Tzu Quan forms have loads of similarity to N Mantis as well.
There was a great documentatry on that style, and they had many people do the forms, and one was so much like N Mantis that it was uncanny!
And, if you really dig into Tang Lang possible history, there was another 6 Harmony Mantis older than the more modern 6 Harmony Manti style.
I’m pretty sure that Tang Lang from Sung Dynasty one was practiced in Shandong and passed from person to person, leading to other styles that superceded their mantis roots.
Also, ancient Tang Lang might have looked a lot more like old styles like Fantzi/tai zu/Shaolin than the way 7 Star Mantis does the forms with a super “mantis” like look.
I’m pretty convinced that Tang Lang developed in the Sung Dynasty. Makes the most sense to me, based on what I have read.
I will try to gather some info from Sung Dynasty records about the style and post it here, when I can get the chance, very busy with everyday life right now.
I am no scholar on Shaolin Si but what I have always heard was that there were possible temples at Henan, Fukien, Kwangtung, Wutang, O Mei Shan. What temples are you familar with in Shandong province?
I took this limitation in Shaolin branches as to why the legend of Tanglangquan say that though it might have been created at Shaolin, it was preserved at Lao Shan in Shandong at a Daoist Temple and taught there by the legendary Shen Xiao Dao Ren(1) (in the Ming Dynasty Origin Story) or (2) was taked from Henan Shaolin Si (in the Song Dynasty origin story) and taught by the same Shen Xiao Dao Ren to none other than Libingshao, a failed scholar. (Hmmmmm, that sounds vaguely autobiographical).
With either legend the Song or the Ming dynasty origin, both hold that the system emerged either from a two hundred or eight hundred nap by way of this same person, Shen Xiao Dao Ren. I have not heard of a legend where the system continue to be propagated throughout this period, unlike styles like Bai Yuan Tong Bei which appear and disappear throughout history.
Your research has REALLY piqued my interest. I hate to trouble you but I hope you have time to post more info on your historical perspective!
I dont have my notes in front of me right now, but from what I remember, supposedly Shaolin in Henan was in total disrepair and closed down (which historically speaking indeed happened many times), and
Abbott Fu Ju went to a Shaolin affliated temple in Shandong, which is now gone, destroyed over time by wars.
While in Shandong, he assembled many masters (18, which is obviously a symbolic buddhist number, 18 lohan, etc) to rebuild the martial arts curriculum and improve on it. Together they created the Qing Gong (Jing Gong) school of Shaolin martial art, and documented over 200 forms. These documents were copied and kept in the library in Shaolin in henan. These I think still exist.
The Beng Bu Tang Land Quan was just one form of many that were developed there.
You know, there are various obscure branches of N Mantis that do not come from the main styles, they do come from people who learned it from independent sources not connected to the 3 main stlyes (Plum Flower, 7 Star, 6 harmony).
During the period “Wu Di” in the “Liang”-Dynastie Wu Shu - masters from all over came together at the Shaolin - Temple. Also WANG LANG was invited to teach TANG LANG there. After three years in the Shaolin - Temple he withdrew from the world. Outside the temple this art was not taught lightly.
In the prime of the Shaolin Wu Shu Eighteen styles were systematized by FUJI CHANSHI (honorary title for a Buddhist monk). TANG LANG QUAN belonged to them with sixteen sequences (the so-called “Puogu Da”, “Fanche Da”, “Tang Lang Da” and “Jiu Zhuan Shiba Die”).
FUJI CHANSHI handed over TANG LANG QUAN to SHENG XIAO Daoren who was the abbot of the Yunhua - Temple in the Lu - community, northwest Cha - circle, province Shandong. He brought this art to the people. Among other things he wrote a book over the style. Therein the eighteen parts of the “Luohan Neigong” (exercise for the strengthening of the internal organs) were described. Each part contains four to five sequences (altogether 69 sequences). Pictures were drawn according to the postures, as well as 69 Memory rhymes were written. That was the oldest and most complete book about Shaolin Neigong.
And:
Chinese historians have identified Meng Xi of Qixia in Shandong (AD 1609-1702) whose remains sit at Huayan Si on Laoshan, as a likely candidate. Even so, there is no historical evidence whatsoever that he is the creator of Tanglang Quan.
In the oral and written tradition Wang Lang is accredited as the founding father and the Daoist monks of Laoshan, Shandong as his initial inheritors. Traditionally the monk responsible for transmitting the developed system to the first lay disciple is known as Sheng Xiao Daoren.
Sheng Xiao Daoren may quite possibly have existed and indeed passed on Tanglang Quan, unfortunately this is also not historically verifiable. He is more than likely, a folk figure representing the generation that fills the gap between Wang Lang (the legendary founder), and genuine historical figures such as Li Zhizhan and Li Bingxiao (of Meihua Tanglang fame), who we can accurately label as propagators of Tanglang. Quan Pu (Boxing scrolls), attributed to Sheng Xiao Daoren exist in various forms, none of which are yet to be authenticated. The mysterious Sheng Xiao, has been variously placed throughout many time frames spanning hundreds of years in traditional Tanglang history. To this day there are no official records listing Sheng Xiao Daoren as a living person.
(by the way, Daoren is a title, not a last name, it generally means priest.)
Though thought to have been initially practiced and disseminated by the Daoists of Laoshan, Tanglang Quan is in fact closely related to Shaolin Boxing as is evidenced by the inclusion of such boxing forms as Xiaohuyan Quan, Si Lu Benda and Cha Chui Quan in the mantis curriculum.
The influence of Shaolin Quan is also obvious in comparisons between the Jiben Gong (basic training/fundamentals), of the two systems. This however becomes less evident as the boxer develops to higher levels which rely more upon trademark Tanglang skills and techniques such as the Yuhuan Bu (Jade Ring Stance), or Qilin Bu (Unicorn Step). It is traditionally taught that any proficiency in such skills is virtually unattainable without extensive training in the afore mentioned Jiben Gong.
(interesting but: Unicorn step is classic stepping pattern found in Shandong province style Di Tang (earthquake or ground) Quan from the Sung Dynasty
AND
Jade Ring stance is classic stance from Fantzi, again from Sung dynasty.
According to some masters in Qingdao, Li San Jian originally taught only 2 forms:
“Crushing Step” (Bengbu) also called “Crushing Step from Yantai City” (Yantai Bengbu)
“Obstacle” (Lanjie)
According to other sources sometimes 4 more forms are added to this list:
“Eighteen Basic Elements” (Shiba Su)
“Avoiding Hardness” (Duo/Zuo Gang)
“Efficacious Softness” (Rou Ling)
“Catching Cicada” (Buchan).
The Hong Kong branch of Qi Xing Tang Lang mentions in its tradition that Fan Xu Dong wrote five books on Shaolin boxing and tang lang quan. These hand written five volumes called the “Shaolin Authentic”. One book was on herbalogy, another was about Luo Han Gong (Arhat Boxing) and the others were on the principles and concepts of northern praying mantis gong fu.
These five books were later hand copied in Hong Kong by shifu Huang Han Xun. The original illustrations and calligraphy on Luo Han Gong by Fan Xu Dong was reproduced in one of shifu Huang’s books in which he added photographs to depict the movements. These books apparently were in Luo Guang Yu’s possession (one of shifu Fan Xu Dong students). Jon Funk stated that there are two copies of the original book by shifu Fan Xu Dong that he is aware of, and one copy is in North America. Ho Yun Chung (shifu Huang Han Xun’s student who resides in Midland, MI, USA), hand copied his own copy.
The idea of shifu Fan Xu Dong writing these books is discussed by the PRC Qi Xing Tang Lang branches mentioning that students that were senior to Luo Guang Yu were not exposed to the Luo Han Gong routine documented in these books.
They support the theory of this routine being added to Qi Xing Tang Lang Quan in later dates in Hong Kong, not by Fan Xu Dong. The total absence of the Luo Han Gong from mainland systems is a strong argument that it was not added by Fan Xu Dong or learned by him at all. We have to consider the possibility that Luo Han Gong was added to Qi Xing Tang Lang by Luo Guang Yu and not added by Fan Xu Dong.
here’s notes/info I got from Ilya, who did a load of research on tang lang mantis, translating many books into english from chinese that were never published before:
It is impossible to tell exactly when Wang Lang lived but there are two main periods of Chinese history which are most commonly said to be the time when Wang Lang developed Praying Mantis Boxing: Song (960-1279) Dynasty and the end of Ming (1368-1644), beginning of Qing (1644-1911) Dynasties. However, most likely, Wang Lang lived (if he ever existed) at the beginning of the Northern Song Dynasty (969-1126) dynasties, primarily because of the existence of one source, independent from Praying Mantis Boxing traditional history. This source is two books that survived the fire when Shao Lin monastery was burned down by Chinese militarists (warlords) in 1928. The first is “Records of Shao Lin Monastery” and the second is “Records about Shao Lin Boxing”. Both books contain the same data about significant events which took place in the monastery at the beginning of Song Dynasty.
It is said in the “Records of Shao Lin monastery”: “…The Supreme monk of Shao Lin monastery Fu Ju invited eighteen masters of eighteen schools of martial arts to visit Shao Lin monastery in order to perform their skills and to teach Shao Lin monks for three years, to absorb the best from each master and combine this experience into manuals about Shao Lin Boxing…” In the hand written copy of the “Records about Shao Lin Boxing” it is said: "…During the Song Dynasty the abbot of the monastery was the great monk Fu Ju, his virtue was high and his reputation significant, he perceived Buddha, martial arts, medicine and literary culture, his name was known everywhere between the borders of the Heaven and the Seas. In order to improve the martial skills of the monks’ brotherhood, he invited great masters of eighteen martial art schools to come to Shao Shi (Shao Shi is the place were Shao Lin monastery is located).
There were two goals: the first was to teach monks the martial arts and the second was to perform their arts, to learn from each others’ strong points in order to offset each others’ weaknesses…" What masters and what styles of boxing did the abbot Fu Ju invite to the monastery?
In the Praying Mantis Boxing Manual (Tanglang Quanpu) recorded the late 1700s, the unknown author provides a list of masters and styles of boxing that abbot Fu Ju invited to the monastery:
In the beginning there was “Long-range Boxing” (Chang Quan) style of emperor Tai Zu.
“Through the Back” (Tongbei) boxing of Master Han Tong’s considered parental.
Hand technique “Rap Around and Seal” (Chan Feng) of Master Zhang En is especially profound.
“Close-range Strikes” (Duanda) boxing of Master Ma Ji is the most remarkable.
It is impossible to come close to Master Huang You who knows the “Close Range Hand Techniques” (Kao Shou).
The technique “Blocking Hands and Following Trough Fist” (Keshou Tongquan) of Master Jin Xiang;.
7.The hand techniques of “Hooking, Scooping and Grabbing Hands” (Gou Lou Cai Shou) of Master Liu Xing.
8.The “Methods of Sticking, Grabbing, and Falling” (Zhanna Diefa) of Master Yan Qing.
The “Short Boxing”(Duan Quan) of Master Wen Yuan is the most extraordinary.
The style “Monkey Boxing” (Hou Quan) of Master Sun Heng is also flourishing.
11.The “Cotton Fist”(Mien Quan) techniques of Master Mien Shen is lightning fast.
The “Throwing-Grabbing and Hard Crashing” (Shuailue Yingbeng) techniques by Master Huai De.
13.The technique of “Ducking, Leaking and Passing through the Ears” (Gunlou Guaner) of Master Tan Fang.
The strongest leg kicking technique is "Mandarin ducks kick " (Yuanyang Jiao) of Master Lin Chong.
15.The “Seven Postures of Continuous Fist Strikes” (Qishi Lianquan) techniques by Master Meng Su.
“Hand Binding and Grabbing” (Kunlu Zhenru) techniques of Master Yang Gun attack instantly.
17.The techniques of “Explosive Strikes into the Hollow Parts of the Body” (Woli Paochui) by Master Cui Lian.
“Praying Mantis” (Tanglang) boxing of Master Wang Lang absorbed and equalized all previous techniques.
Verifying the info from this list is the fact that One of these Shaolin monastery books provides the same list and ends it with the concluding passage, “All these were gathered and brought together by Chan (Zen) Master Fu Ju from Shaolin monastery.”
The two oldest names that can be reliably proven both date back to the 1700s.
Li Bing Xiao (mid 1700s), who taught Zhao Qi Lu, who taught Lang Xue Xang, who taught a lot of people everyone knows now (Chen and Wang) that started the Mei Hua tang Lang style).
and a totally seperate line:
Jin Shi Kui (early 1700s), who taught Wei San, who taught Lin Shi Chun (who started the Six Harmony Tang Lang Style).
In case you didn’t know, Jin Shi Kui, in his travels, visited Shanxi Province and taught Dai Long Beng, of XY fame, 6 harmony mantis forms (which are incorporated into Dai Fmaily XY).
No one know who taught Jin Shi Kui.
Seven Star Tang Lang is later than these two mantis styles, which was started by Li San Jian during the 1800s, 100 years later than these two Mantis styles.
I am sorry that I really don’t know where to begin to tackle with the supposition.
First off, if there exist a document there should be a date of which the document was made. This will state the dynastic reigning emporer’s title in all its forms. Then there will be the actual incident’s date. Without it, it’s pretty much useless to any historic significance. So we will need to see this “surviving” documents for verification purposes.
I believe that Fu Ju is a very problematic character. Timeline wise, he is believed to be contemperary of Song Taizu and Han Tong (the Tongbei Master in the sonnet) which means it’s around (960 CE). But Yan Qing and Lin Chong were supposed folk heros in the Water Margin which is based on the Xuan He incident (roughly around 1121 - 1123 CE). Fu Yu became Abbot of Shaolin around 1242 CE (I think). He also set up the Monk lineage Chart with a poem. He and possibly his peers were all going with the Fu (fortune) character designated generation much the same with the Shi character designated generation today. Before his time there is very little to go on. So I find it a bit convienant that Fu Ju exsited WAY before Fu Yu. Also how it is that an Abbot of a well known and respected temple just chose or simply “ordered” to go to Shandong (and why an “affiliated” temple of Shaolin?). That’s a major demotion not to mention a disgrace IMHO!
At this point I am afraid I will have to ask the toughest questions: have you actually read the Luohan Xing Gong Duan Da? Have you read the 18 Luohan Gong Text? If you have, could you give us insights on the theorectical core? If it is really originally Shaolin as it is believed to be, then how does this knowledge in theory exist in all other “surviving” Shaolin systems, styles, and forms? Please don’t tell me that Fu Ju took off with the knowledge and Shaolin temple in Henan didn’t have it until it was “reintroduced” to Shaolin. How can we be sure or even argue that Shaolin never has or was exposed to this knowledge piror to the reintroduction? BTW, when would this “reintroduction” be?
I know there is a version of the manuscript existed as Shaolin Duan Da Pu which has 19 roads instead of 16. BTW, would you have a theory on the difference in number of roads? Which number is more “correct” and why?
If the monks today have no insight to the theory of formulation of the Quanpu, how could it be really “traditional”? Where is or has the traditional wisdom gone?
I am sorry, it’s just incredibly “je ne sais quoi”.
Agreed! I’m not staking claims here, just posting interesting notes I have.
These Sung Dynasty era documents, if they exist, must be examined, and their dates verified. Perhaps you need to communicate with Ilya Provatilov, who posted this information originally. If these documents are authentic, they are a major input to the history of martial arts and very important. It would be great if they are real, cause it would lay to rest this topic.
There is a major tome of Shaolin history, etc., coming out from a researcher, Dr. Meir Shahar. He’s a professor at Tel Aviv University; he’s written several articles on Shaolin history (published in Harvard J. of Asiatic Studies and Asia Major) and is finishing up a book on Shaolin. He covers a lot of records examined there, perhaps some answers will come of it?
In my opinion Fu Ju is from a little later than when Song Taizu and Han Tong were around (960 CE).
But that bit I wrote about him going to Shandong, well, nothing proven yet, more research is needed, that’s what some people say, and that is because Shaolin in Henan was said to have been shut down again (by the Jin?). It periodically goes through phases of disintegration and revival all through it’s history. Fu Ju met with people to preserve the martial arts, that is the history that the Jing Gong Shaolin branch carries in its lineage, and he had to go outside of Henan Shaolin to do it. There was a long absense of Shaolin news from that time to almost the Ming time. Dead quiet.
Why else would it be said that Jue Yuan had to work hard to revive Shaolin arts after this time period? When he got to Shaolin (during the Yuan dynasty), barely any martial arts were practiced. It didn’t flower again til the Ming Dynasty.
The story that “Yan Qing and Lin Chong were supposed folk heros in the Water Margin which is based on the Xuan He incident (roughly around 1121 - 1123 CE)”, well I doubt the novel has any accuracy for dating. If Fu Ju was Abbott in 1242, that is long after Yue Fei died (1141?).
Yan Qing is mentioned in Shaolin for being the founder of Mi Jong (Lost Track) Quan, so that puts him in Song dynasty,according to that story.
Lin Chong and Liu Xing are both said to have been students of Zhou Tong, which means their art should be Fantzi or Ba Shan Fan as it was called then, and their techingues added to the 18 masters influence shold be like Yue Fei Jia Quan and indeed:
“7.The hand techniques of “Hooking, Scooping and Grabbing Hands” (Gou Lou Cai Shou) of Master Liu Xing.” is very much the main hand technique, the classic hooked mantis hand that is seen in many Yue Fei forms and in some Fantzi forms today.
and
“14. The strongest leg kicking technique is “Mandarin ducks kick " (Yuanyang Jiao) of Master Lin Chong.” , which again is classic Fantzi quan item.
And
Ba Shan Fan/Fan Tzi, itself is said to be derived from Wen Family Boxing, of Shandong, who is also listed as one of the 18 masters”:
“9. The “Short Boxing”(Duan Quan) of Master Wen Yuan is the most extraordinary.”
No, I haven’t read the actual Luohan Xing Gong Duan Da or the 18 Luohan Gong Texts, wish I had, only people’s writings about them. Like I said, I am making no claims, just reporting what other’s have said or written.
I don;t have a theory on the number of roads, still investigating about it.
Shaolin today has to ask local families to re-teach them Shaolin forms that have disappeared from the temple over time. Sung Tai Tzi 32 Long Fist form was one such form.
After Shaolin burned down and much of its library too, in 1928 or so, there are still working to revive themselves from this and piece together the lost information.
I think you have a lot of disparate thoughts and basically some study of chinese would help clerify them. Unfortunately collecting and connecting to try and resolve martial history is like trying to take all the sands of the ocean with a paper cup.
To put it basically … more came from outside of shaolin than from shaolin. In addition the restoration of shaolin quanpu suffers because the practitioners fill the movements on their own knoweldge and since many do not have that knowledge all the quanpu’s contents have been xiao hong quan - ised, Liang’s Family Chang quan - ised, De gen’s luohan - ised and pao quan -ised.
On some other points:
Zhou tong’s has always been listed as teaching Yue fei military arts (shoot a bow, chop etc…). He is also a character in the origins of Yanqingquan and Chuojiao…but this is where there is no correlation. Because the styles today have been influenced by previous generations. Yanqingquan influenced by moselm liuhequan which was influenced by Moslem Chaquan. Chuojiao influenced by meihuazhuang, erlangquan, and others,…
the sands could continue but the dust will not settle.
Yue fei’s arts where not direct lineages of himself. Since in the southern song his family ended up somewhere on the north jiangxi or east of HUbei province. Where his sons taught a Yuejiaquan (or what we call Yingmenquan in Jiangxi)… however their styles were influenced by Huzunquan and Yihequan as well as zimenquan…so the puzzle again is a lanyrinth.
likewise ba fan shou and ba shan fan are two distinct styles.
ba fan shou or lian quan is based on Liu de kuan’s teachers influences which also derived into Cheng zi cheng’s yingzhaofanzi.
Ba shan fan is based on old Liu Tang gen.
Unfortunately the linking of disparate notes is difficult and believe or not the practice and sharing amongst wulin brothers in practice is where the essence of origins start to make sense. …
