I posted this on the taiji forum, probably belongs there but this forum is more alive… A while back someone mentioned that a natural style boxer beat him… I don’t know much about taiji so can anybody give me any info about Yang cheng fu or this other fighter? WHen did this so called match happen?
Yea’ I mentioned that fat bstrd Yang Cheng fu. I don’t remember the year but he lost a fight to the practitioner of Ziranmen(sp?). Then the creator of Wu Style had to come and whip the guys a$$ so the Tai Chi crowd wouldn’t lose “face”, but ironically it made Cheng fu more famous for fighting such a well known fighter even though he lost. The Wu Grandmaster was dmn near 60 somethin’, but Yang didn’t make it passed his 50’s. In my opinion he ruined Yang style because his fat a$$ could do the forms properly, but he was the style bearer so he could do anything he wanted. Also some people argue they can still use it to fight and they probably can. Still, i woulda liked to learn the “lengendary” Yang Lu Chan’s original form. Cheng fu probably won so many fights beacuse he had skill but he mainly intimidated people. Would you wanna fight Yang Lu Chans grandson. He was also the size of a fckin’ Sumo Wrestler. Even Wu styles been bstrdized from what people say. Only one that hasn’t is Chen and some people dont even consider it real Tai Chi? They won’t say it to your face but hey, what do they know.
I know it seems harsh but thats just my rant. I’m sure he could still whip my a$$, and i’m sure he was a nice guy but that has nothing to do with fighting skill. I have nothing against the guy but i’m tired of people laying down “improvements” on everything. Just leave sh*t alone. Some things don’t need to be changed.
The Natural Boxer or Spontaneous Boxing master was Wan Li Sheng, who was one of the Five Tigers who went South. He also is known for his Northern Shaolin. He was one of the few MA who was educated and wrote a book on CMA in 1927 which is now a classic and a collector’s item.
When he fought Yang, he did not use external style to defeat Yang but beat Yang at his own method; pushing hands. Wan Li Sheng actually lifted Yang off the ground.
I’m new to CMA. Who are all these guys you all are talking about? Some guy wooped on anotha dude with Tai Chi?
Hll yea, i’m about to take up Wu style at Leung Shum’s school. It’s a good fighting style but most lazy slobs, old people or hippies won’t get any real skill, thats why most people give you a funny look when you say you practice Martial arts and it’s Tai Chi, people lie about there skill in any style though (Dmn hippies and posers) I hope i dont turn out that way. Most of the early Tai Chi practitioners were Bodyguards and if you know any history you know how dangerous the Silk Road was. Some of the Imperial Bodyguards used Tai Chi at one time so it had to be first rate. Back to your question, Wu Jian Quan (sp?) wiped the floor with a Ziranmen stylist after he beat Yang Cheng fu.
I know Tai Chi has a self-defense aspect to it.Is it considered external?
Its considered internal dude, and its pretty cool. They have strikes, throws that need almost no strength…
I was told that Yang was frioends by a prominent (and younger) Shuai Chiao stylist who protected him when he lived in Shanghai.
Anyone else hear this story?
“ I have nothing against the guy but i’m tired of people laying down “improvements” on everything. Just leave sh*t alone. Some things don’t need to be changed.”
So your ability is such that you can judge what is an “improvement” and what is not by a famous master ?
bamboo leaf
Leonidas my sifu’s husband is Yang Chen Fu’s grandstudent and he has some ofthe best Taiji around,Huang Wai Lun–heard of him?Yang Chen Fu might have lost,I don’t know anything about the fight, but it doesn’t mean he couldn’t lay the smack down.
I would like to have the choice before the whole style is changed up. How am i s’pose to gain the skills of my Teacher if he’s laying down improvements to the original style he was taught. Why can’t he just change his own way of fighting, instead of the entire system. How would anyone know if it needed improvements in the first place. Everyone has their own opinions on whats effective or not. If you make improvements and start teaching that to everyone you have the same dilemna that you started with. Someone may be inches shorter or taller, weigh 50 pounds more or less. maybe their alot quicker or slower. Whats i’m saying is you should teach the original way and let people make their own personal improvements because thats what occurs anyhow. No 2 people fight the same even doing the same system. 2 different teachers usually have their own interpretation of an art no matter what the lineage holder teaches officially. Yang Chen fu was over 300 pounds. He claims to have changed so it was easier for the public to perform the excercises, but i suspect it was easier for himself. I hope everyone understands where i’m coming from.
A little confused please help me.
By org. do you mean the org. 13 postures.
The org. style before the Chen style.
what org. TC style?
As for me i don’t care much about the outside of the box only whats in it. 
Wu-Style Taijiquan
I study Wu-Style Taijiquan from my teacher, Jingyu Gu, in Austin, TX. We definitely learn the combat applications of taijiquan, but my teacher does not focus on it for a long time. He is very good, he learned from Master Ruan Rong-Gen, a second-generation student in direct lineage from Wu Jian-Quan.
Learning from a real teacher has changed the way I think of CMA for ever. I used to be very skeptical, until I could actually witness internal power first hand.
I dont know much about the 13 postures either. What i’m saying is that I think when Yang Lu Chan made his style of Tai Chi it didn’t need to be changed. Everyone doesn’t have to add their 2 cents by subtracting forms and movements. If it’s not something stylistically different then why bother. You can obviously tell the difference between Chen, Yang, Wu, Hao, Sun, Li, Zhao and Chang. I’m not saying there shouldn’t be improvements or we would all be studying the same martial arts, but why can’t you give me the same choice your Master gave you. Instead of something watered down based on your own body type. Some styles even demand that the Instructor teach everything that he was taught and not hold anything back.
Ok, who knows the original Yang style?
Hi,
I do the Chao family version of the Yang style. Chao, Yuh Feng was freinds with Yang Chen Fu (suposedly). My guess is he learned his Taji from the man himself.
We have the 8 postures done in a straight line form, as well as the 4 gates and 8 gates. Our basic form is the 64 move form, it’s mostly an expansion on the 8 gates. Then, our advanced form is the 37 move form. It looks like a standard Yang style Short form, with all the repetitive techniques removed. We have no long form though. I would like to learn it someday, but I want the authentic set, not some watered down adjusted form.
Anyone ever see the 118 move Yang style from from Yang Jwing Ming? What’s the opinion of that set?
Royal Dragon
It’s good to see that your still in the R&D stage Royal.
I find the most interesting discussions on this board come from the people who really play and work with there systems.
Hows it going.
Leonidas
When someone learns a martial art it is THEIR business what they do with it. If you don’t like the changes sombody makes on a system then don’t learn from them it is as simple as that. He told people he changed it so it’s not like he “duped” people out of money. Nobody should really have any say in what someone does with THEIR art.
“I would like to learn it someday, but I want the authentic set, not some watered down adjusted form.”
If I may offer a slightly different perspective.
If you could do just the opening “most styles call it raise hands” with in all the TC principles I believe you would have the whole system.
Some of the older teachers will not teach beyond this if you can’t get it right.
I learned this the hard way. “ again please”
Just using this movement a noted teacher “Ben Lo” could toss a person into a wall. I’m sure many here could give contless ways this simple (maybe not so simple) movement can be used.
I think the TC is already inside, a teacher just helps you to find it.
IMHO The method he/she uses is not important as long as the teacher has the real skill.
Constantly looking for the “real deal or the org set” these are achievements by people who found it. They found it with in themselves and passed a method down for others to follow.
I think many mistake the method for what they found.
I echo what Black Jack, said. You must test it and find out if your skill is true or not.
Before doing this I would make sure I had a good handle on what I thought I was doing.
luck in your training
Thanx for stating something i already posted. Maybe you didn’t read all of my first post but i already said Lineage Holders can do whatever they want with their own style. I just wish it wasn’t this way. It’s called courtesy. I should have the opportunity to learn a style exactly the way it was taught when first conceived. The same one your Sigung became so skillful in. He didn’t train in the “watered” down art he’s passing down