I am thinking of checking out a school teaching Chen family TC. What do you guys think of it, would like to hear either good or bad. How does it compare with other styles ? I have been doing the combined form popular in China. The Yang style schools seem weak, stiff and not teaching martial applications but that is just the local problem I am sure. I have a chance to go with Chen style but don’t know much about it.
Chen style is very cool…
Its dynamic with quick explosive motions mixed in and more circular than Yang with its linear power delivery.
Doing Chen style is what first gave me explosive snapping power
I would highly recommend it.
BTW, the combined form you do, is that the 24 move form?
yes, the 24 form. Sounds good, I’ve had some jook lum mantis so I can appreciate the snapping type striking. thanks.
Chen style is very cool, looks very explosive. I haven’t tried it myself but have seen some of it demonstrated. I would try it if I had a chance.
Too bad about your local Yang schools. Yang Style is beautiful to look at when done correctly and the apps are very powerful.
Taiji is taiji, all styles are good depending on what one is looking for.
probably your best bet on the net is to contact Mo_ling at Ef and ask him about chen style and different teachers here in the US. He seems to have a very broad and unique perspective on the art.
No, I do not practice chen style
I’ve been been studying chen stlye old frame for about a year now…I must say that I went into it thinking of it as a supplement to my health, but the more I learned, the more I became facinated with the martial aspect…Of course I have nothing to compare it with…definitely empowering…of course 99% of this is due to my instructors
Thanks for the kind words of course 'Leaf.
You know, your inquiry is hard to address because at issue is really what YOU are lookinng for and why. Answering that will answer your questions to some degree, but in the end, it is also about what you want to train, and why versus your local availability and/or willingness to travel.
If you want what Chen has but your llocal Yang style offering are of a higher calibre, I would suggest going with the highest skill you can rather than a lesser version of something presumed to be better/different. The same applies in reverse, if Chen or some other art is better locally.
Chen style classes seem to be the only ones you can count on to have martial applications in them. I have seen no other Taijiquan that is so consistent across the country. Just as Chen usually has fighters Yang style usually doesn’t. Worldwide it might be different but here in North America thats the way it seems to me.
I teach Yang style btw.
All I can say is WOW! Please show me all these North American Chen style FIGHTERS please. I anxiously await your response. I have never seen a single person who does Chen that actually fights. All this speak about Chen being the martial and Yang being the health is all nonsense. You get what you train, no matter what the style.
Take a deep breath there buddy… I posted my opinion in response to anothers question. It was just one mans opinion. I did not post to argue. Take your anger somewhere else.
The Chen style and it’s variation such as Zhaobao and Hulei do seem to sport some good fighters. The locks, leverages, and throws are all pretty evident and similar to the old Shuai Jiao or Chinese Wrestling throws. My teacher’s teacher, Lin Ah Long only uses Taiji techiniques when he fights and is a renown fighter in Taiwan (he trains both Zhaobao and Yang style Taiji). The Chen Taiji people are also big on push hands drills and this is also most likely a good reason for their fighting ability. In fact, in push hands competition it is usually Chen people or Wu style (Wu Jian Quan) people that are the champs.
First of all, I’m not angry at all. To each his own, but you still haven’t answered my question; Where are all these Chen fighters that you are talking about?? Show me some.
I’m not putting down Chen style at all, but all I have seen is push hands contests which generally are or become wrestling matches. I have seen no high level skill in any Chen push hands tournaments yet. Plenty of pushing and pulling though.
Greetings..
I have seen no high level skill in any Chen push hands tournaments yet. Plenty of pushing and pulling though.
LOL.. that is a perception.. if you have played with the likes of Josh Waitzken, Dan Caulfield, the Childress clan, Tiffany Chen, etc… you would realize that the “pushing and pulling” can be a very advanced sensitivity experience.. they can elevate sensitivity to a combat level, not just polite unbalancing games… Try pushing-hands with Taiwan Rules, where throws are expected and subtle manipulations in the heat of struggles are hardly noticable to the untrained eye.. I think we have a restricted perception of Taiji’s martial capability, we seem to think it must be some esoteric set of mystical movements.. it is combat done with Taiji principles. At combat speed Taiji appears similar, it’s the results that are Taiji’s signature…
Be well…
I don’t know Bob, I respect your opinion and experience, but I guess I see things differently. The Chen tournaments (and Yang) that I have seen are tugging, pulling, and pushing, which is mostly the same way wrestlers get their advantages. The elavated sensitivity you speak of could or could not be TCC and I see no YI leading Chi or any of those higher principles being exhibited. Maybe it’s the way the rules are setup which can be restricting and inhibiting, but judging by tournaments alone I see no fajing, no peng jing, just pulling, tugging, and pushing. I should also mention that I do see some good rooting skills anyway. I’m only an intermediate (at best) player myself, so maybe my eyes are not seeing the truth yet, but **** if it doesn’t look exactly like wrastling to me:)
As far as the Tiffany/Max/William Chen Yang style people go, they train with boxing gloves and to me that is another non-tai chi type activity to train. I am not criticising their skillz but training methods that involve boxing gloves seems like Boxing, not TCC. I never heard of Yang Cheng Fu or CMC using boxing gloves.
As far as the Tiffany/Max/William Chen Yang style people go, they train with boxing gloves and to me that is another non-tai chi type activity to train. I am not criticising their skillz but training methods that involve boxing gloves seems like Boxing, not TCC. I never heard of Yang Cheng Fu or CMC using boxing gloves.
If I’m not mistaken, they openly train boxing and san shou to go with their taiji. If you look at the CMC form the punching and kicking seems pretty limited. Tiffany Chen is one of the few people I’ve actually seen knock people around in pushands though without resorting to wrestling or brute strength.
If you practice traditional TCC as a martial art, there should be no need to supplement it with kickboxing and such. My comments are just general observations and not a criticisism towards the people you mention.
Generally, when people do this it is because something is lacking in their current training. TCC has kicks, punches, throws, fast sets, San Shou, and power development, but it’s up to the individual practitioner to train it properly.
There are also sub styles within Chen Tai Ji.
Greetings..
As far as the Tiffany/Max/William Chen Yang style people go, they train with boxing gloves and to me that is another non-tai chi type activity to train. I am not criticising their skillz but training methods that involve boxing gloves seems like Boxing, not TCC. I never heard of Yang Cheng Fu or CMC using boxing gloves.
If I’m not mistaken, they openly train boxing and san shou to go with their taiji. If you look at the CMC form the punching and kicking seems pretty limited.
Yes, they use boxing gloves, MMA gloves, bare hands, etc… they train in the safest yet closely realistic conditions .. it is better to train a Taiji fajing expression with some concern for the safety of the partner, otherwise we either injure the partner or do “air drills”..
CMC is only one perception of Taiji. WCC Chen has demonstrated to me, personally, the power he can generate from the “1 inch punch”, i was darn happy he was wearing MMA-type gloves.. If you look at many perceptions (styles) of Taiji you will see all the applications necessary for self-defense.. The Chens’ train in approximately realistic conditions using Taiji principles from many styles.. i can’t seem to find fault with this approach.. If someone uses boxing gloves to mitigate potentially dangerous techniques in the training environment, what’s the issue?
I wonder if the use of “boxing gloves” somehow changes the dynamics of training? It seems like it would empower someone to use more aggressive Taiji techniques while protecting the training partner.. acquiring a more practical knowledge of the technique.. If i decide to train with a willing partner in the use of FaJing force, i would anticipate a slow progression into 75-90% of combat speed.. at that speed protection is essential.. we will train the technique and the defense(s) to the point that it “makes sense”…
It doesn’t seem proper to complain of non-realistic training on one hand and then lament the use of protective gear that enhances that training on the other hand..
Although i don’t favor the CMC forms, i can’t argue the capabilities of CMC or his students.. there must be something to it..
Be well…
If you practice traditional TCC as a martial art, there should be no need to supplement it with kickboxing and such. My comments are just general observations and not a criticisism towards the people you mention.
Depends on what branch of taiji you’re learning. Besides, what’s wrong with learning new techniques? If people only stuck with faithfully imitating the techniques passed down to them without adding and subtracting then there wouldn’t be so many branches of taiji quan.
If you compete in something like San Shou you’re going to need boxing techniques (or something similiar). Most Yang taiji people, while they may have good self defence skills, just don’t have the punching or kicking techniques needed for competitive fighting contained in the form. Yang taiji has what… just a front heel kick? 2 punches? The traditional Yang style form and its derivitives have a lot of great fighting techniques, but is defenitely lacking when it comes to punching and kicking compared to the average san shou fighter. Knowing taiji quan isn’t going to magically give you an awesome side kick (unless it’s a traditional part of the training… like in Chen style for example).
If you’re an expert in taiji quan learning new technique from an outside source isn’t suddenly going to negate your taiji experience.