[QUOTE=Graham H;1220674]Excellent! I prefer to learn a system that doesn’t work in the movies. :)[/QUOTE]
Sure your interested in anything non Philipp Bayer?
Having experienced quite a few other lineages no I am not.
In fact had I not met PB I would have gone back to Boxing or something because Wing Chun is generally full of nonsense.
…in my opinion.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1220688]Having experienced quite a few other lineages no I am not.
In fact had I not met PB I would have gone back to Boxing or something because Wing Chun is generally full of nonsense.
…in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
Your loss.
You’re making the mistake of over anaylizing video footage. The videos that are put up on YouTube are not instructional videos. They are just examples.
You will have to touch hands with Leo before you can really trash him. His teacher is Sifu Sin Kwok Lam, I am sure you have no experience in that lineage.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1220688]In fact had I not met PB I would have gone back to Boxing or something because Wing Chun is generally full of nonsense.
QUOTE]
blast that pesky PB 
Your loss.
You’re making the mistake of over anaylizing video footage. The videos that are put up on YouTube are not instructional videos. They are just examples.
Its not my loss! I have experienced Wing Chun from all over inside and outside of Hong Kong. I have watched Leo’s instructional things and his ideas are the same as what I have practiced before AND moved on from.
As for touching hands with him, what do you mean? Chi Sau? No way! Chi Sau is not fighting or sparring. Rolling with somebody from a different lineage is not always possible. Most systems are at the wrist and they don’t have too much of an exchange of force. I cannot roll with people like that. Chi Sau is a mutual partner drill for improving. This whole idea of “free chi sau” is not my thinking.
Ving Tsun should be no different from Boxing. You want to have an exchange of skills you put your hands up and attack each other.
In my opinion that video of LAY knives is how NOT to use them. The angles are all wrong. The positions wouldn’t be safe enough in sparring. The footwork is not dynamic enough and if he think he can twirl the knives about like that in fighting then he is an alien from another world. These are things I can see from video footage.
That’s what people do on here is over analyze video footage. You’re right though it is a mistake…in most cases.
Oh yeah and we don’t fight on river banks. I wouldn’t want to mud up my tai Chi slippers :D:D:D:D
blast that pesky PB
Wishful thinking 
[QUOTE=Graham H;1220691]
Oh yeah and we don’t fight on river banks. I wouldn’t want to mud up my tai Chi slippers :D:D:D:D[/QUOTE]
Oh well, big limitation. Should be able to fight anywhere:)
[QUOTE=Graham H;1220691]Rolling with somebody from a different lineage is not always possible. Most systems are at the wrist and they don’t have too much of an exchange of force. I cannot roll with people like that. Chi Sau is a mutual partner drill for improving.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this statement. I’ve “rolled” with other lineages before and the geometry sometimes just doesn’t line up and the ‘rolling’ is over very quickly.
@Dreamer7
BTW…PB was asked in an interview once why he chose WSL as his teacher. He already practiced LT system before. His answer wasn’t WSL’s prowess in fighting, his challenge victories or his reputation in HK. He simply answered that it was WSL’s thinking. That thinking is different to most and that is why I went there. That thinking is not for everybody and you proved that by choosing LAY over DS. That is a move I don’t understand.
We are all different with different agendas and priorities. This forum is a good advert for that 
[QUOTE=thedreamer7;1220695]Should be able to fight anywhere:)[/QUOTE]
I knew that was coming
[QUOTE=HybridWarrior;1220696]I agree with this statement. I’ve “rolled” with other lineages before and the geometry sometimes just doesn’t line up and the ‘rolling’ is over very quickly. :D[/QUOTE]
…not a good idea to “roll” with anybody outside your own school until both parties are on the same page. Better to spar a little.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1220697]@Dreamer7
That thinking is not for everybody and you proved that by choosing LAY over DS. That is a move I don’t understand.
We are all different with different agendas and priorities. This forum is a good advert for that
[/QUOTE]
I liked DS very much, so I won’t trash. However I also liked LAY thinking. At the time I was doing intense Sanda training in China and had mixed results in the fights I had. I primarily liked the fact the LAY made it clear if I train with him I can also go see other linages and styles to improve myself.
He had detailed explanation on all concepts of martial arts. I liked his technique and structure. He also put strong emphasis on physical conditioning…
And simply put when we sparred he totally destroyed me.
[QUOTE=thedreamer7;1220700]I liked DS very much, so I won’t trash. However I also liked LAY thinking. At the time I was doing intense Sanda training in China and had mixed results in the fights I had. I primarily liked the fact the LAY made it clear if I train with him I can also go see other linages and styles to improve myself.
He had detailed explanation on all concepts of martial arts. I liked his technique and structure. He also put strong emphasis on physical conditioning…
And simply put when we sparred he totally destroyed me.[/QUOTE]
We both have found our paths. Amen
…anything can happen
[QUOTE=thedreamer7;1220700]I primarily liked the fact the LAY made it clear if I train with him I can also go see other linages and styles to improve myself.[/QUOTE]
You will find this quite common now with the Sifus in HK and China too, as the MMA world has had this effect on the more Traditional ‘One Sifu for life’ teachers like my own. Chinese MMA has been going on for quite a while now too, say more than 400 years
LAY is also a Sifu of Hung Gar isn’t he? And Taichi? Being a practitioner of other Southern Arts too, he will always be open like that which is a great way to appeal to the MMA types.
When you are restricted by your Sifu from ‘touching hands’ with other lineages it is sometimes because of their own insecurities, knowing that the ‘roll’ will be different and sooner or later end up in a fight/spar of sorts anyway. I also find it’s because they are hidng something too, like a lack of true understanding, and the only way to ‘exchange’ is to have patience and share eachothers methods over time. This way both parties will feel eachothers way and benefit accordingly.
I would hazard a guess here that even within ones own lineage there will be differences in rotations and chisau practises. I know this is true from my own experience meeting and exchanging with my own family members, and each way has its strengths and weaknesses.
But if we are to talk about weaponry, and how to promote the knives especially in a stylized cinematic way, I have yet to see anything as appealing as the work Sifu Leo is doing. His experience working in the HK movie industry has obviously had a good influence on his artistry… but I understand that isn’t everyones cuppa tea!!
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1220740]You will find this quite common now with the Sifus in HK and China too, as the MMA world has had this effect on the more Traditional ‘One Sifu for life’ teachers like my own. Chinese MMA has been going on for quite a while now too, say more than 400 years
LAY is also a Sifu of Hung Gar isn’t he? And Taichi? Being a practitioner of other Southern Arts too, he will always be open like that which is a great way to appeal to the MMA types.
When you are restricted by your Sifu from ‘touching hands’ with other lineages it is sometimes because of their own insecurities, knowing that the ‘roll’ will be different and sooner or later end up in a fight/spar of sorts anyway. I also find it’s because they are hidng something too, like a lack of true understanding, and the only way to ‘exchange’ is to have patience and share eachothers methods over time. This way both parties will feel eachothers way and benefit accordingly.
I would hazard a guess here that even within ones own lineage there will be differences in rotations and chisau practises. I know this is true from my own experience meeting and exchanging with my own family members, and each way has its strengths and weaknesses.
But if we are to talk about weaponry, and how to promote the knives especially in a stylized cinematic way, I have yet to see anything as appealing as the work Sifu Leo is doing. His experience working in the HK movie industry has obviously had a good influence on his artistry… but I understand that isn’t everyones cuppa tea!![/QUOTE]
Correct, he is into Hung Gar & Tai chi. Also other things.
I have always been taught to question any technique or training style.
Not get involved with cults, etc.
[QUOTE=thedreamer7;1220839]Correct, he is into Hung Gar & Tai chi. Also other things.
I have always been taught to question any technique or training style.
Not get involved with cults, etc.[/QUOTE]
I think we have all been taught that, but getting involved with cults?? That’s a new one even for me… didn’t think Sifu Leo was into such things 
[QUOTE=Graham H;1220699]…not a good idea to “roll” with anybody outside your own school until both parties are on the same page. Better to spar a little. ;)[/QUOTE]
f’unny how there are so many chi sao videoes out there, but almost none of sparring.
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1221692]f’unny how there are so many chi sao videoes out there, but almost none of sparring.[/QUOTE]
I don’t really care about how many (usually bad) videos there are out there, except that, as you imply, it is probably does reflect a deplorable lack of sparring in most WC training.
BTW LaRoux, --didn’t see anything in your “profile” --are you a WC practitioner or are you giving an outside perspective on this problem?
[QUOTE=LaRoux;1221692]f’unny how there are so many chi sao videoes out there, but almost none of sparring.[/QUOTE]
An ideal time to put some of your sparring videos up then.