[QUOTE=Graham H;1220429]You may as well give up on this one. You clearly don’t know what you are talking about so, as usual, you make snidey remars at people.
Go on say it…lay a cake or something, say that I am huge and that I have made your day etc etc etc :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
No !
You are just the best.
A bit ignorant on blades basics but still the best on this forum, by far.
PS : It’s wing chun guys who say that their wing chun badass butcher knives are no match to anybody…
They never met lichtenhauer masters with long swords…
In your lineage you consider the knives to be no different??? Strange because in my lineage the thinking is totally different. In fact they contradict many ideas from the other components of the system.
Graham why don’t you actually try reading my post first before
There is a situation in my lineage where by the student will only be taught the knives to people that show their worth in sparring. Due to the dangerous nature of fighting with them, wussies need not apply. Apprehension in knive fighting can lead to injuries.
Apprehension in any form of fighting leads to injuries, it is just magnified in weapons fighting because of teh consequences of a single blow.
If you don’t like to get stuck in and are controlled by fear the knives will be a problem for you. This is why there a quite a few differences within our own lineage. WSL didn’t teach too many people knife fighting.
Fair enough if true, WSL had his own way of doing things
As your Sigung doesn’t like fighting I would guess that he probably was shown aspects of the form but no sparring.
Guess being the operative word, I could say the same about WSL (but i wouldn’t out of respect) as none of us were there. Sigung’s training has changed as he has gotten older, as he is now 90 he has less interest in fighting and more interest in the health benefits of Wing Chun, it hasn’t always been this way.
Like Leo AY, Ip Chuns Knives are riddled with mistakes. They may look good to the untrained eye but for fighting…completely wrong
You know this how? Were you taught the knives by Ip Chun? Seriously who taught you the knives, other than PB I’d genuinely be interested to know?
There is always the chance that you and your peers may have taken things further than you were taught of course but I’d still like to know your thinking behind the knives and how they fit into your system.
Nothing wrong with what I was taught or what my sifu was taught. If you mean do we train the knives outside of the form, then yes - both against targets and in sparring. As for where the knife form fits into the system, it has multiple facets. In addition to its primary goal of learning to fight with the weapons (which is different to fighting empty handed), it teaches new footwork and angling, it refines elbow control, builds energy and improves power delivery in hand techniques, gives a workout to the wrists and shoulders, improves dexterity and much more.
Graham why don’t you actually try reading my post first before
Yes I will endeavour to read them next time
Apprehension in any form of fighting leads to injuries, it is just magnified in weapons fighting because of teh consequences of a single blow.
Yes
Fair enough if true, WSL had his own way of doing things
Guess being the operative word, I could say the same about WSL (but i wouldn’t out of respect) as none of us were there. Sigung’s training has changed as he has gotten older, as he is now 90 he has less interest in fighting and more interest in the health benefits of Wing Chun, it hasn’t always been this way.
I would say it has. Ip Chun has never been known as a fighter and his ideas on Wing Chun have never been my cuppa. Each to his own I guess.
You know this how? Were you taught the knives by Ip Chun? Seriously who taught you the knives, other than PB I’d genuinely be interested to know?
No I wasn’t taught by Ip Chun but I was taught within his lineage. I have also watched Ip Chun play knives in the flesh, listened to what he said about them and watch his applications and they are not good…for me.
Nothing wrong with what I was taught or what my sifu was taught. If you mean do we train the knives outside of the form, then yes - both against targets and in sparring.
That’s good.
As for where the knife form fits into the system, it has multiple facets. In addition to its primary goal of learning to fight with the weapons (which is different to fighting empty handed), it teaches new footwork and angling, it refines elbow control, builds energy and improves power delivery in hand techniques, gives a workout to the wrists and shoulders, improves dexterity and much more.
Ok, you say elbow control? Are saying you control knives from the elbow as we do in empty hand?
no need to be confused just read the post and you will hopefully understand, there were no long words or anything
Ok, you say elbow control? Are saying you control knives from the elbow as we do in empty hand?
No, not at all. Some motions are still powered by the elbow but many others the wrist replaces the elbow. What I was reffering to in my post is the magnifying factor of the blade. If you are slightly off in your positions empty hand it is hand to notice, however teh tip of the blade being further away than the hand magnifies any imperfections making them noticeable thus requiring greater control of the arm.
What “energy” ?
energy, force call it what you will. Where do you focus your intent when striking with the knives? Making the knives sing is challenging and rewarding.
no need to be confused just read the post and you will hopefully understand, there were no long words or anything
Ok will do. Thanks then
No, not at all. Some motions are still powered by the elbow but many others the wrist replaces the elbow. What I was reffering to in my post is the magnifying factor of the blade. If you are slightly off in your positions empty hand it is hand to notice, however teh tip of the blade being further away than the hand magnifies any imperfections making them noticeable thus requiring greater control of the arm.
Need to re-read that one a couple hundred times
energy, force call it what you will. Where do you focus your intent when striking with the knives? Making the knives sing is challenging and rewarding.
Funny you should say that but just the other night my knives started singing “You can’t touch this” by MC Hammer. How bizarre?
[QUOTE=thedreamer7;1220548]How can you make that assumption?
Can you show us a fighting example of the knife form?[/QUOTE]
Erm, because I can.
We learn the forms and surrounding drills for sparring. We learn the pole for sparring, We learn the knives for sparring. They all compliment each other and improve our Ving Tsun. Everything in Ving Tsun is directed towards sparring and ultimately if one ever has to use it to protect themselves…real fighting.
We don’t do fancy knives on river banks. This is only good for Kung Fu movies. If that was his intention then I hope to see him on TV soon
[QUOTE=Ali. R;1220568]My opinion has nothing to do with it, but thank you very much.
Take care,[/QUOTE]
You gave your opinion and I responded to it. This is a forum after all. If you think that there is nothing wrong with Leos knives it means you are not aware of the problems inside or are you just complimenting him on his dramatic prowess?
[QUOTE=Graham H;1220572]You gave your opinion and I responded to it. This is a forum after all.[/QUOTE]
I have no problem with what you said.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1220572]If you think that there is nothing wrong with Leos knives it means you are not aware of the problems inside or are you just complimenting him on his dramatic prowess? :D[/QUOTE]
I thank you for your opinion; it’s your right to trash whomever; but no, that’s not it.
Look, you’ve really told on yourself on another thread (made it clear), so it makes no sense for me to fight with you.
[QUOTE=Graham H;1220563]
We don’t do fancy knives on river banks. This is only good for Kung Fu movies. If that was his intention then I hope to see him on TV soon :)[/QUOTE]
Actually you will. He has a role in the next Ip Man movie. I hope you enjoy it:)
The butterfly knives reflect your empty hand style so each person will be a little different. All southern styles, hung gar, choy li fut, pak mei etc have butterfly knife forms and techniques based on their styles fighting methods.
I honestly think that like the dummy and pole, the knives probably only consisted of drills and principles and not a standard form until ip man generation.
