[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1058526]It depends on what TCMA principles you are using and how you are training them.
[/QUOTE]
So you are proficient in ground skills then? From your WCK background? How do you fare when testing out your training in a standard BJJ school on the ground?
Interesting, perhaps I should frequent wrestling forums to find out about them…
No, it’s never necessary to look to any other form of martial art for answers. Just blindly follow your sifu and what he tells you. Never ask him to prove his ground skills.
Also ignore the fact that Yip Man and other very well known WCK sifus have studied multiple arts as they interacted with one another and exchanged ideas, training and expertise.
And while you are at it, make sure that anyone asking about WCK “groundfighting” never explores anything outside their little clique of approved martial arts.
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058540]So you are proficient in ground skills then? From your WCK background? How do you fare when testing out your training in a standard BJJ school on the ground?[/quote]
I have never claimed to be “proficient” in ground skills. I have said that the Mainland Chinese WC curriculum has ground fighting practice as a part of its traditional methodology.
Unfortunately, I had to move countries before I covered that area, and nowadays whenever I travel and meet sifu, I concentrate on polishing up what I already know. All this does not change the fact that various TCMAs address the groundfighting scenarios!
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058540]No, it’s never necessary to look to any other form of martial art for answers. Just blindly follow your sifu and what he tells you. Never ask him to prove his ground skills.[/quote]
If you have any doubts about the skills of any TCMA sifu, you are free to go to their kwoon (kung fu schools) and challenge them!
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058540]Also ignore the fact that Yip Man and other very well known WCK sifus have studied multiple arts as they interacted with one another and exchanged ideas, training and expertise.[/quote]
Very true, Yip Man was very well known for his BJJ skills…:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058540] And while you are at it, make sure that anyone asking about WCK “groundfighting” never explores anything outside their little clique of approved martial arts.[/quote]
They can “explore” anything they like, but IMHO, they should first concisley explore the art of Wing Chun, before they go onto “improving” it.
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058540]Because a bigoted view is a pure view, right? [/quote]
You need to have a pure view of Wing Chun if you wish to improve it, because pure view will imply concise understanding of this profound art.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1058544]I have never claimed to be “proficient” in ground skills. I have said that the Mainland Chinese WC curriculum has ground fighting practice as a part of its traditional methodology.
Unfortunately, I had to move countries before I covered that area, and nowadays whenever I travel and meet sifu, I concentrate on polishing up what I already know. All this does not change the fact that various TCMAs address the groundfighting scenarios!
[/QUOTE]
So clearly here on this thread you are running your mouth with zero skill to back it up. So if you have no proficiency in ground fighting, why are you polluting up this thread? Oh, to spread rumor and fantasy stories?
If you have any doubts about the skills of any TCMA sifu, you are free to go to their kwoon (kung fu schools) and challenge them!
Sounds great. Where is the kwoon you train at located? Address and sifu’s name? I’ll start there.
Very true, Yip Man was very well known for his BJJ skills…:rolleyes:
So Yip never crosstrained in anything? Hmmmmmmmm.
They can “explore” anything they like, but IMHO, they should first concisley explore the art of Wing Chun, before they go onto “improving” it.
You need to have a pure view of Wing Chun if you wish to improve it, because pure view will imply concise understanding of this profound art.
Everyone’s journey is their own. Trying to dictate whether someone drills deep first or develops breadth is short-sighted.
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058546]
Sounds great. Where is the kwoon you train at located? Address and sifu’s name? I’ll start there.
[/quote]
LOL — Don’t forget to YouTube that match..
The problem is that more often than not the student is not highly skilled (why he’s looking for a teacher) so a challenge would prove nothing..
Teachers with fighting experience may offer some way of verifying their skills.. Many modern CMA Sifu don’t/can’t..
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058546]
So Yip never crosstrained in anything? Hmmmmmmmm.
[/quote]
What I have been told by most older TCMA Sifu is, “Never just do one style..”
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058546]
Everyone’s journey is their own. Trying to dictate whether someone drills deep first or develops breadth is short-sighted.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058546]So clearly here on this thread you are running your mouth with zero skill to back it up. So if you have no proficiency in ground fighting, why are you polluting up this thread? Oh, to spread rumor and fantasy stories?[/quote]
There is nothing “fantasy” about the existance of ground fighting and grappling in the TCMAs, and that is the point.
If I had said that there were effective low kicks in Wing Chun, would you base the validity of that statement on wether I could use those kicks or not?
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058546]Sounds great. Where is the kwoon you train at located? Address and sifu’s name? I’ll start there.[/quote]
My Wing Chun sifu is in South America. If you are planning to fly over there for a challenge match, I would suggest that you polish up your skills to first be able to survive an anarmed fight with the fourteen year old gang members, before you go on to challenge martial arts instructors…LOL,LOL,LOL!
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058546]So Yip never crosstrained in anything? Hmmmmmmmm.[/quote]
If he did cross train, then I would hazard a guess that he did in another TCMA, which would have been relevant to his core style. He would also have understood his core art before going on to improve it!
[QUOTE=Wayfaring;1058546]Everyone’s journey is their own.[/QUOTE]
Yes, very true, and may your “journey” to the MMA forum be a fruitful one.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1058544]I have never claimed to be “proficient” in ground skills. I have said that the Mainland Chinese WC curriculum has ground fighting practice as a part of its traditional methodology.
Unfortunately, I had to move countries before I covered that area, and nowadays whenever I travel and meet sifu, I concentrate on polishing up what I already know. All this does not change the fact that various TCMAs address the groundfighting scenarios![/QUOTE]
So you have never seen this WC groundfighting then eh…
You have by your own admission absolutely zero experience in this topic. You keep stammering on about the TCMA groundfighting that you have never even learned. Do go to some wrestling forums. You need the exposure…
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1058550]There is nothing “fantasy” about the existance of ground fighting and grappling in the TCMAs, and that is the point.
If I had said that there were effective low kicks in Wing Chun, would you base the validity of that statement on wether I could use those kicks or not?
My Wing Chun sifu is in South America. If you are planning to fly over there for a challenge match, I would suggest that you polish up your skills to first be able to survive an anarmed fight with the fourteen year old gang members, before you go on to challenge martial arts instructors…LOL,LOL,LOL!
If he did cross train, then I would hazard a guess that he did in another TCMA, which would have been relevant to his core style. He would also have understood his core art before going on to improve it!
Yes, very true, and may your “journey” to the MMA forum be a fruitful one. :D[/QUOTE]
actually he asked where you trained now so he could pop by…do tell ;o)
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1058550]My Wing Chun sifu is in South America. If you are planning to fly over there for a challenge match, I would suggest that you polish up your skills to first be able to survive an anarmed fight with the fourteen year old gang members, before you go on to challenge martial arts instructors…LOL,LOL,LOL!
[/QUOTE]
Oh dear precious baby Jesus on a pogo stick.
So we have this narrowed down to at least a continent. Not my continent, but it’s a start.
But before I roll with your sifu I need to “survive an anarmed[sic] fight with fourteen year old gang members” ???
Does “anarmed” mean they have AK-47’s? Or is it that I have to survive the kids class at your school first? Can you tell you have me shaking in fear here?
I could point out that a simpler solution is that Brazil actually also is in South America. And ask how your Wing Chun sifu fares rolling with people at Gracie Barra in Rio. But that might actually involve some logic and common sense, so I’ll avoid doing that.
[QUOTE=Saboi Osmosis;1058120]does your school cover any groundfighting techiniques/escapes etc…
I always here people say power comes from the ground, So if your on your back on the floor surely your wing chun should be good on the floor???[/QUOTE]
Its great your school is doing something different. I am always look for someone who does Shuai Jiao, or even a tournament… I worked out with a friend who did Mongolian wrestling. I’m intrigued by Sumo, and would love to travel to Japan to devote time to learning it.
The real trick is go out and test yourself. register for a local grappling tournament, and work on applying your skill and adapting to make things work. Don’t get discouraged by people who will jump all over you for trying something out of the box. The other thing to worry about is keeping an open mind and constantly learning.
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;1058563]So you have never seen this WC groundfighting then eh…[/quote]
Of course, I have seen it, as practiced by sifu and his senior students. It is you who have not seen it, now that is a little different…
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;1058563]You have by your own admission absolutely zero experience in this topic. You keep stammering on about the TCMA groundfighting that you have never even learned. [/quote]
The point is that it exists.
Look, this is a simple point, some TCMAs address ground fighting!
So I don’t know why it is refusing to sink in, as far as you guys are concerned?
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;1058563]Do go to some wrestling forums. You need the exposure…[/QUOTE]
Unfortunately, in this case, “the mountain has come to Mohammed”…
Look, let me clarify this before everything gets out of hand, after all, the subject matter of this very thread concerns TCMA grappling.
Various TCMAs DO address the ground fighting arena, that fact has already been established, even here. Of course, for many the argument remains as to wether that is good enough, but in IMHO it is, when combined with all the other attributes a genuine TCMA program can give you.
HW108 - when you say “ground fighting” please be more specific. I have trained in some CMA where they considered ground fighting to be what you do when the other guy is on the ground.
Basically, the only TCMA fighting from being on the ground I have learned/seen is:
-Kicking up to keep distance, to then regain your feet
-Trapping your two legs on his one to disrupt his balance, so you can regain your feet
-Rolling to gain distance, so you can regain your feet
I have NOT seen anything analogous to ground wrestling seen in BJJ where the idea is to finish on the ground. If your school has some please discuss it here, if it is more of what I listed above then that is not going to be considered “ground fighting” by BJJ people.
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;1058623]Well, you tell him that I am not doctor Kevorkian, so if he is looking to commit assisted suicide, then I suggest that he looks for it locally…;):D[/QUOTE]
Only someone with no ground skills and no exposure to any ground skills would term any kind of test of ground skills “assisted suicide”. Among those with ground skills, this type of thing is such a common everyday occurance that people don’t freak out when mentioning it like HW108.
[QUOTE=Eric_H;1058657]Lets hold the horses up for a second.
HW108 - when you say “ground fighting” please be more specific. I have trained in some CMA where they considered ground fighting to be what you do when the other guy is on the ground.
Basically, the only TCMA fighting from being on the ground I have learned/seen is:
-Kicking up to keep distance, to then regain your feet
-Trapping your two legs on his one to disrupt his balance, so you can regain your feet
-Rolling to gain distance, so you can regain your feet
I have NOT seen anything analogous to ground wrestling seen in BJJ where the idea is to finish on the ground. If your school has some please discuss it here, if it is more of what I listed above then that is not going to be considered “ground fighting” by BJJ people.[/QUOTE]
The idea behind WC and other TCMA groundfighting is to destory people on the ground using punches, kicks, joint breaks, eye gouges, biting, or any other thing that will finish off the opponent or multiple opponents.
[QUOTE=Eric_H;1058695]The way your write it makes it vague, do you mean you yourself are on the ground or the opponent is on the ground and you are standing?[/QUOTE]
Either or both.
And, btw, yes you can use WC principles and techniques to fight on the ground.
