the other thread is blank when i open it… So tell me, why dosn’t wing chun work?
Who says it doesn’t? Wing chun has withstood the test of time. It must be effective otherwise it is extinct by now.
cha kuen says it dosn’t
hey wing man, I already know wing chun works, I just wanna know y this guy(or any one else) thinks it dosn’t.
I think the reason that the other thread didn’t come up is because it was a troll thread, and it got closed. All I got when I tried to look it up was a message saying something about the thread being closed. Maybe that’s what the new forum does with closed threads.
As to why Wing Chun doesn’t work:
(1) They were doing it wrong
(2) They tried to use Chi Sau as a fighting tecnique
(3) They just got thrashed by a Wing Chunner & are in a bad mood
(4) They learnt McChun and it gave them the expected results
(5) Because they suck
(6) They didn’t train hard enough
Those would be my reasons.
FWIW
Hello,
For what it’s worth the other thread was closed and the original poster was “Ralek”. For some reason the individual posts could be deleted but the topic stuck around. So, it was closed. Considering Ralek and his reasons for posting things, “TROLL” I figured it better to just close it.
Peace,
Dave
idea
maybe if someone other than a renob like ralek or ralek. started a thread called “the effectiveness of wing chun,” this might work. maybe we should get an unbiased person like zinjen from the .hk forum.
Arh
Now you have spoiled the fun.
i thought it was a joke like the book called “Reasons why women are the best drivers” 
For those of you who havent read it, its blank inside
RTB
Hello,
Had you read the original post I doubt you owuld have agreed with either its tone or anything it stated, but I could be wrong.
Basically what the post stated was that Wing Chun sucked and was always beaten in NHB type of events. I think you get the gist.
Peace,
Dave
Does wing chun consistently get splattered in NHB/MMA events?
I don’t really follow those things, just some clips on the internet between the bignames. I did see one WCGuy from Va Beach get slaughtered in a NHB(?) event a few years ago. But it didn’t look like he did wing chun - more like kickboxing. He tapped in 30 sec or so I think…
WC in tourneys
This has come up a few times, and here i smy theory on why WC does not win in tourneys like this:
There are rules.
These keep the participants safe from serious harm or even death. They are necessary to a sport. WC is not a sport but a martial art, and inherently has things that do not follow the rules to keep people safe, except for the practitioner or those he may be defending.
If you notice, grapplers seem to dominate those contest…well because thier sport is designed fo rit, they have taken thier martial art and turned it into something that can be used safely. A lot of them consider themselves exceptional for being able to take a hit, come to grapple with an opponent and hold on. Frankly, who cars if you can take a shot to the chin, or the chest, how about a nice pak to the elbow? What happens when a grappler cannot use his arms to grapple any longer? In the street it comes down to the ability of the fighter, not the ability to manipulate a system to survive inside of the rules, on the street there are no rules.
On top of this is seems a lot of times these guys who practice a martial art light WC, and get into a tourney, probably haven’t studied it enough, even to understand this.
Rules?
That may have something to do with it, but I think a lot of it has
to do with the whole relaxed thing. It’s very hard to stay relaxed
in situation where there are a lot of spectators and lights and
cameras and a cash prize, etc. Not to mention that you pretty
much just sit around and wait for your turn.
Anxiety…
builds…
and…
tension…
grows.
It would theoretically be possible to remain relaxed and be able
to perform, but it can’t be easy.
Relaxation is key.
Beyond that, I’d have to agree with straight blast.
"There are rules.
These keep the participants safe from serious harm or even death. They are necessary to a sport. WC is not a sport but a martial art, and inherently has things that do not follow the rules to keep people safe, except for the practitioner or those he may be defending. "
I don’t agree with this line of reasoning about the lack of success of CMA in NHB matches; particularly with ving tsun. Sure there are some ‘deadly’ techniques, but there’s sh!tloads of punching and kicking and thats certainly what I train the most. I almost never do neck-breaking stuff in chi sao 
but I sure wallop folks with my fists and palms…
I’ve never fought in a cagematch and maybe I never will (tho I sometimes think about it :eek: ) but I like to think that I could punch and kick with the rest of 'em. Now the grappling 
In any case what I’m most interested in is who HAS represented wing chun in NHB and what have been the results?
Thanks.
I agree to an extent
I agree to a certain extent Sanchezero, that there are plenty of moves that could work in the ring. If you study Wing Chun deep enough and long enough, you will come to find that there are also answers to the popular grappling weakness argument about WC.
Mostly what I am saying is this, In WC we have a full arsenal of things to use. WC is straight and to the point, and alot of that has to do with things you cannot do in the ring. now, if you limited your WC to just punches and kicks, there is alot you are not using, a whole mess of things that are effective but not allowed.
For example, I study WC for one reason, because I feel that if I am in a street fight and I meet someone who is my equal or less in the MA, I have a good chance of winning thefight because of WCs’ no fluff attitude. I am however not so confident in a ring where I am only allowed to use a certain percentage of what I know.
Now a really good WC artist could probably survive pretty well in the ring against anybody, but we are talking a rare breed. Some of the researchI have done on a few of th guys who do WC in these tourneys shows they have the same problem most ma epople do now a days. no concentration on one art, going back and forth and all kinds of crosstraining and no real focus.
I truly believe that in afight on the street, a WC guy has one helluva better chance than a grappler who does it for sport, even UFC or similar styled sports.
sihing73
kinda figured that was the nature of the topic. had troll written all over it.
however, at times when i’m not in too bad a mood, i like to read what other people have to say about wing chun. most of the time, it’s some random nob whose wing chun experience is comprised solely of watching a william cheung mpeg they downloaded off some website. the rest? banter they’ve gotten from other people about who has done what. remember playing that game in elementary school where one kid is given a short story to tell, and the listener then has to repeat it to another kid, and so on, until by the 20th time the story has been told, little red riding hood had actualy shot the wolf with gramma’s 9 mm, then took gramma’s harley down to vegas and was found unconscious in a gutter with track marks on her wrists and elbows. same idea. the results of matches don’t stay static the more times people tell them, nor do the names or styles, and it gets all poopy from there.
but, every now and then, someone raises a healthy issue/question with wing chun, like problems they have dealing with fast kicking arts or whether or not they feel chi sau is worth all the time and effort it’s given. that stuff is positive, because iasks important questions and we have a good base of folks to bounce ideas off of. however, if some no hops up and says, “wing chun stinks and here’s why,” i don’t think anyone really cares what that person says.
The problem is the training
I hate to say it but 90% of the wt/wc out there WONT WORK. Its really has a lot to do with how its trained. I am currently writing a paper on this topic, but here’s the gist of it:
There’s a lot of crappy wt/wc out there.
Too many people try to get away with a light workout becuase the style seems so effective.
There is a distinct lack of hard contact (ie helmet and gloves) sparring against one another AND against trained opponents, specifically boxers and wrestlers. This type of training is PARAMOUNT to real world self defense skills.
There is a lack of overkill training.
Despite its flexibility, few people train for spontanaity, sucker punches,and bizarre situations.
Wt/wc is a BOXING style-yet how much time is actually spent on punches (in the air,wallbag,chasing a person.)
Most reaction drills don’t go beyond simple “this guy punches and I do this and that.”
There is a distinct lack of conditioning in WT/wc schools.
I am not a wt/wc hater, in fact I used to help my si-hing teach it. However, we had very different ideas on what was important for drilling.
I know that W.C is not designed for the ring, but I still dont see why it wouldnt be effective in one of these events. I dont think anyone really good has represented WC in this way yet.
I agree that these sports are not a very good representation of a real fight. I dont know about you guys but I havent often seen a street or bar fight that goes to the ground.
In some of these sports there doesnt seem much you cant do though. I know you cant poke in the eyes or hit the groin, but thats the sort of thing that women learn in community self defense lessons. Surely a W.C fighters skills exceed having to resort to that. One good punch in the nose would stop most people in their tracks and if not seriously disrupt them for the rest of the fight . I thought W.C was good at getting into an advantageous position and striking while still being safe yourself.
There are a few fighters that dont grapple much and still win, like Igor Vovchachin(spelling??).
I think it could work, its just waiting for the right person to do it.
Re: The problem is the training
Iblis73,
All of the points you state are excellent, but that aspect is more of the teaching style and teacher than the actual technical merits of the style.
“Why wt/wc won’t work” and “Why wt/wc teaching methods that I have observed don’t work” are two different things. It is hard to distinguish the causal effects of one on the other, but they are two distinct topics. For example, a certain technique may not be working because (1) it’s inherently weak biomechanically or what not or (2) it’s not taught properly. Both affect each other, but which one causes which?
But I totally agree with you. It’s the people that make a system effective in a fight – the system alone cannot make people effective in a fight.
It is my understanding that WC is not a ring sport. I’ve been led to believe that WC is about destroying your opponent in the shortest time possible in the most efficient manner possible. When you put WC in the ring and say “Ok, no knee stomps, eye gouges, etc…” (my favourite techniques) then you might as well say to Royce Gracie “Ok Royce we want a good, clean fight…by the way, none of that grappling stuff”.
Get the point?
But the biggest point would have to be that none of the “WC” fighters in the UFC had any more than six months casual cross-training in WC. And I mean casual. I don’t know about you, but I wouldn’t feel comfortable fighting with minimal rules (note: not NO RULES) after six months in a system that takes years to become proficient in.
We know better.
Good Wing Chun kicks a** 
I agree
I agree my posts where about the training and not the mechanics of the style. That being said my background is in both WT and various WC styles, and some styles use techniques that aren’t very efficient or are dangerous to do. See my post under the topic “differences between vt/wt/wc.”
Also, if so many people train so poorly, it becomes a reflection of the style. If you really want to be good at this style you MUST mix it up with boxers and wrestlers.
I should also add something else: as a traditional style it is one of the best. But the problem is that it is a “traditional” style and still takes time to apply the techniques. Also, being a style it has numerous rules. I have been researching this a lot lately and am coming to the opinion that if someone just wants self defense they should look elsewhere than traditional martial arts.
self defense, vs classic martial arts
I agree with that, anyone looking for self defense should probably go to a self defense class. That is why I think alot of traditional schools have such high turnover rates. A lot of people just want to come in learn a little about defending themselves and then move along.
I like your idea of training though. I too believe a lot of people dont train sufficiently, alot of them do all of thier training in class, maybe a little form work or something at home. Some do it sloppy because in America the mentality that I dont have to do anything I dont want to has been taken way out of context.