I don’t think you understand what I’m saying. I am saying this: “it takes too long to adjust the whole body to deflect/avoid a barrage of quick punches. maybe you can avoid the first one, but not the others. Since you don’t know from where the 1st, 2nd, 3rd attack is coming from beforehand (as you do in a drill that I’ve been hearing so much about), you have to actually observe and react, while the other guy is just firing off a combination as fast as he can.”
Let me put it another way (btw, I do understand the concept of whole-body-movement): an arm moves faster than the whole body. If you do whole-body-movement, than the time it takes to change stance / twist body becomes the bottleneck in terms of speed.
Do you actually claim to have that ability, Pong Lai, or are you just defending the theory of mantis fighting?
Yu Shan, why so ****y? Is that a sign of great skill?
Hi Ye Gor,
The hands and arms may be faster, but they are also the weakest. That’s why you need the strength and reinforcement of the whole body behind it. With proper training, it is easy to move the body rapidly. Mantis is all about twists and sudden reversals. Too bad you’re not in NY or NJ, because I would invite you to come to one of my classes so I can show you first hand why hands alone is ineffectual. But if you’re ever planning a trip out here please feel free to look me up. My addresses are on my website, which you can access from my member profile. It’s good that you don’t believe everything you read - you seem to be the type of person that must see things first hand. Me too! Thanks to you, I decided to add video to my website just as soon as my webmaster returns from abroad. I’ll let you know when it’s updated.
ye
basic tai ji ,I know you know this I have traind with you, when one part moves all parts move. this is not to say that your hands are not faster than moving your whole body, but that there is a concetion of the arm/hand to the whole body so you respond in a conected way . path of root , dan tian rotation creating harmony between upper and lower, all these are expressing the same idea , I THINK
Let me put it another way (btw, I do understand the concept of whole-body-movement): an arm moves faster than the whole body. If you do whole-body-movement, than the time it takes to change stance / twist body becomes the bottleneck in terms of speed.
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I know its not really the same thing but i guess its sort of like when a boxer ducks punches
If you treat and train EVERY block as an attack within itself, you will have the advantage on the opponents second, third…attack/strike! For example, something I am training with students right now…How to counter a boxing jab and round house punch or similar one-two 9can alos be 123) combo. If you only flinch with the hand up and nothing else moves, yes you are wide open for the rest of the attack.
Part of CMA is utilizing blocks to set up your attack/counter, not to just “defend”.
Unfortunately, I leave the “theory” to Kevin and the other smarter historians. YG, I do claim and am confident I can follow through with anything I post!
Le noobi: Yes the theory is like your example, except with the duck your stance (legs) move little or if any which sets you up for Yegors 2nd and 3rd attack.
Work and analyze Outside Guo Luo Tsai, it can enlighten even the most skilled.
Sifu D: I haven forgotten your question on ground fightening, I will answer that. Want to make sure my wording answers most questions. Thanks for the patience. Wow, The tape you brought by brought back many memories. not like they were ever forgotten.
does what you are explaining here work better/best at long or medium range? i can understand it from there but have trouble seeing it as being equally effective close in- possible, just not likely.
I think his point is to be ofensive , attack of the frist strike use position to keep you from being blasted w/ run on techniques. Mantis is not a defensive mingded style. that’s why like ye gor said it is so dificult to stop a blast.
Flem
I think it is easly done at long range , must be done at medium, or you will get blasted, close range is all about sensitivity, rotation & trapping . I think it all can be aplplied from the clintch as well. Shun fa is always present.
Originally posted by Dachengdao
But if you’re ever planning a trip out here please feel free to look me up. My addresses are on my website, which you can access from my member profile.
… I decided to add video to my website just as soon as my webmaster returns from abroad. I’ll let you know when it’s updated.
OK, I’ll take you up on that offer. If I’m ever out that way.
Great! I like videos. They’re so much better than still pix.
if its not too hard to explain, how does it work against upward motions-like uppercuts, knee,etc. also is it used equally well with hooks/ straight punches? oh, and with hooks, does the movement follow the initiation of the swing or it’s return - i’m thinking of an opponent moving with my hook- without contact- moving inside, but my continued motion allows it to land on the return- as in WL’s di heen choy, attacking the back of neck if they drop in and down.
one of the strengths of mantis IMO is contact and its ability to stick and work of of the movement of your partner. so whether its 123 off a stright punch or the use ofa tag to the in side (bicept comes to mind) of the hook opening the door for your blast so to speak ,it works on building attacks in to you defense.
Now on the upward movments knees can be defeeted w/ knees of your own & outside position and the upercut is controled by contact & rotation, body conditioning goes a long way have to be able to take a shot.
one of the strengths of mantis IMO is contact and its ability to stick and work of of the movement of your partner. so whether its 123 off a stright punch or the use ofa tag to the in side (bicept comes to mind) of the hook opening the door for your blast so to speak ,it works on building attacks in to you defense.
Now on the upward movments knees can be defeeted w/ knees of your own & outside position and the upercut is controled by contact & rotation, body conditioning goes a long way have to be able to take a shot.
one of the strengths of mantis IMO is contact and its ability to stick and work of of the movement of your partner. so whether its 123 off a stright punch or the use ofa tag to the in side (bicept comes to mind) of the hook opening the door for your blast so to speak ,it works on building attacks in to you defense.
Now on the upward movments knees can be defeeted w/ knees of your own & outside position and the upercut is controled by contact & rotation, body conditioning goes a long way have to be able to take a shot.
Originally posted by Dachengdao Hi Ye Gor,
The hands and arms may be faster, but they are also the weakest. That’s why you need the strength and reinforcement of the whole body behind it. With proper training, it is easy to move the body rapidly. Mantis is all about twists and sudden reversals. Too bad you’re not in NY or NJ, because I would invite you to come to one of my classes so I can show you first hand why hands alone is ineffectual. But if you’re ever planning a trip out here please feel free to look me up. My addresses are on my website, which you can access from my member profile. It’s good that you don’t believe everything you read - you seem to be the type of person that must see things first hand. Me too! Thanks to you, I decided to add video to my website just as soon as my webmaster returns from abroad. I’ll let you know when it’s updated.
Our 8 step mantis system used local moves for attachments, not for strikes. Stikes are whole body moves. For example, the 12 softs: Go Lo Tsi Gua are hand attachments, all other 8 are whole body moves. There are many ways to deal with the limp strikes by applying whole body. It is not when you arrived faster that you will get what you want first. Only attacking vital points like eyes, would speed matters that much.
Originally posted by PaulLin
Our 8 step mantis system used local moves for attachments, not for strikes. Stikes are whole body moves. For example, the 12 softs: Go Lo Tsi Gua are hand attachments, all other 8 are whole body moves. There are many ways to deal with the limp strikes by applying whole body. It is not when you arrived faster that you will get what you want first. Only attacking vital points like eyes, would speed matters that much.
Paul Lin, I don’t understand this, can you explain? Thanks very much.
Originally posted by Ye Gor Paul Lin, I don’t understand this, can you explain? Thanks very much.
That is we used local limp movements to determine how to attach to opponent.
Go–means hook hands/fists. Lo–out side in circle deflection. Tsi–in side out deflection and grib. Gua–arm roll outward deflection.
That are the first 4, for hand attachments. The other 8 of the 12 softs are:
Shan–angle evading. Zhuan–turning repositioning. Tung–leap repositioning. Nou–moving with opponenet in ratio, both moved. Zhan–attaching. Nian–sticky and soft. Tiea–keep stick on, not lost contect. Kao–have you body attach to opponent, let your opponent carry you weight.
These 8 needs to be done with whole body.
Other than the 12 softs, we also have 8 hards. They all need to be done whole body.
When whole body force meets the local force, the local force will injur. So even though you can have the local limp strikes arrived faster, but the whole body force can just take on position and wait there for your arrival(Ye Yi Dai Lao). That is why faster not always get the job done.
Whole body force can be fast too, it just needs longer training time to achieve.
Paul Lin wrote: "When whole body force meets the local force, the local force will injur. So even though you can have the local limp strikes arrived faster, but the whole body force can just take on position and wait there for your arrival(Ye Yi Dai Lao). That is why faster not always get the job done. "
See, Paul Lin, that’s exactly what doesn’t make sense to me.
If the ‘local limp strikes’ arrive faster, how can ‘whole body force just take on position and wait there for your arrival’??? If the strike arrives FASTER, how can the body be ALREADY WAITING for it? Are you reading my mind to know exactly what I’m targeting, or what?
ps: I’ve always been under the impression that fast+precise will always rule over power/strength. No matter how ‘limp’ or ‘local’ a strike is, when it smacks you in the nose/eye/throat/temple/neck/groin, it’ll feel pretty powerful to you (the recepient).
pps: I can see whole-body-defense used for the more powerful (and slower) strikes, especially the big one-timers (one punch, one kill). But to claim that whole-body-defense is a cure-all, I just can’t see it. I guess I really have to see it. Sorry Pong Lai, a trip to Tampa is nowhere on my agenda in the near future. Why not come to Boulder?
