Mindset of a mantis fighter

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Northern Praying Mantis
1

When thinking about Mantis fighting theory, regarding whatever your family or style is how is this skill applied and taught? Is it just something that was passed down from teacher to student? Or is it something that you personally have tried and true tested out for your self to see if you can actually execute the theories to all facets of your skills? What ever the theories of your style are in general, how have you applied them in a fighting situation?

Now I pass on what I know, I will explain that I’ve seen or heard it done this way and that is fine if you can do it. But I’ve only been successful with this. Or I’ve never actually used this outside of class. I bring this up from the 36 throws thread and the things said there regarding Single tactic fight ending blows. Aside from actual mantis fighting tactics, how are your tactics applied in combat?

This mindset was in my training from the beginning and from what I’m hearing I wonder if anyone else is doing the same or even have the same mind set. If not, why not? The ability to free fight and not be stuck in the rut of thinking out your fight is essential. I say this from experience in the ring and on the street. From first hand knowledge to seeing it, what you “think” is going to happen 9 times out of 10 isn’t going to happen so you better not get caught up in thinking that way. What happens when you get stumped? You get tunnel vision, you get flustered and start thinking “what am I going to do next” and “why did it happen like this” When you should be reacting in a positive way. These are the negative things that will eat you up in a confrontation, and further your chances of a losing battle.

Physical, mental, emotional control, the ability to keep these things in check will help you execute your tactics efficiently. Someone thinking about anything other than keeping control of these things will lead to openings for your opponent. This will start the downward spiral of physical, mental, and emotional control in the conflict and this is the beginning of the end for the fight. If you train right then your tactics will flow freely without having to think of what needs to be applied. This should be the goal of any fighter.

2

Normal mind…

Hi Shirkers1,

Well, I am a firm believer of normal mind [re: relax and ready]. I also see both your approach and Youknowwho’s. But personally, I am more inclined to agree with YKW.

Warm regards

Mantis108

3

Old Chinese saying said, “Act like a sheep in your daily life and act like tiger in your fight”. When a mantis blocks the wagon wheel with both of it’s fore arms. He didn’t know that he is just a small insect. He believed that he could fight against a wagon wheel.

“Run down” your opponent is the hightest level of CMA principle. In PM term it’s called, “When mantis attacks, it never turn it’s head back”. In order to do that, you have to devote a lots of time in your:

  • Entering strategy
  • Baiting setup
  • Foot work
  • Throwing ability
  • Finish ability

Single tactic will make the fight “simple”.

  • He kicks you, you run him down.
  • He punches you, you run him down.
  • He does nothing, you still run him down.

You force your opponent to fight the way that you want to fight and your fighting style may not be familiar by your opponent and that’s exactly what you want. This macho attitute may upset someone but we need to have faith in ourselves.

The important part is not whether you win a fight or not. If someone take you down by single or double legs shooting and you still don’t know why you lost then you may have a big problem there. That means you have not prepare enough in the area of “defense against shooting”. To say that there may be too many variables that could happen and no matter how hard that you train, you will never be able to cover all the different possibilities. To me, that’s not positive attitute. We should prepare ourselves as much as we can. If we still lost. there is nothing to complain about. We are just not good enough.

I would like to have positive attitute and fath in our CMA and think that I’m as good as those Muah Thai, BJJ, MMA, or western boxer. If I alwasy “wet my pants” when I met those guys then I better find a quite place and get a rope and hang myself.

When a CMA guy losts in a fight, he would say, “My skill is not good enough. You are better but I would like to have a rematch 3 years from today”. In those 3 years, he may poilish his skill as much as he can and 3 years later, he may win or he may lost. He may never be able to win against that guy for the rest of his life. But that’s OK. He can only do his best.

If you put the whole earth population in a cage fight then there will be only one winner. After that winner died, the earth are full of “losers”. Winning or Losing are just common sense in military terms and should not be too serious about it.

As far as “one move can conquor” the earth. It has been proved through CMA history and there is nothing new about that.

4

Similar idea to Sifu Lai’s answer when someone asked, “Well, what do you do if your opponent does xyz?”

In all seriousness, he simply replied, “Kill him.”

N.

5

right

YKW
that is exactly what I’m saying… It’s all part of the equation. Single tactic at a time is what I’m stressing, it’s what you have a better chance at executing rather than thinking multiple moves ahead of the game. When the variables in a fight change with every move, so how can you possibly prepare for what is going to happen with 100% accuracy? Sure a single sucker punch to the throat could end the fight… but what if you miss the target and then it’s on…?

What you posted in the other thread is to know all the counters to what is going to be thrown etc so you can land the one fight ending tactic. You need this knowledge in the big picture, but you better not be thinking about that stuff during. It should be a point of action not thinking. I never said not to train your tactics individually or apply them individually. But to have the mind set that one punch one win will put you in the losing column. That’s a fact… Training with your class mates regularly that know what you’re going to do and know your flavor is one thing. Applying your training against someone with absolutely no skills/better skills that doesn’t know you from adam is another story. When was the last time you were in a street fight? Hell it’s been over a year for me, I’m no where near where I’d like to be fighting shape wise. Of coarse I don’t think you can ever be too ready. :wink: My point is, if you knew me you’d know that I live the aggressive tactics when I fight. But you get it done you don’t worry about variables in a fight. You train and execute when the time alows it. You can plan how things are going to work till the cows come home, but I gurantee those “plans” will change when it hits the fan.

Winning or losing a fight makes a big difference if you’re the loser who is on his way to the hospital. I spoke to the mind set of walking away learning something even if you are the loser, taking a positive from a negative. But the bottom line is no one wants to be the guy on the bottom getting his face kicked in. So don’t tell me winning or losing doesn’t matter. Or you wouldn’t be fighting in the first place. Why fight if you have nothing to gain or lose? Why train an aggressive fighting style like mantis if you don’t think you’re going to have to use it?

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good morning gentlemen, i think some terminology is used interchangebly when specific definitions of each one should be agreed upon:

Strategy - overall plan or idea on how you want to accomplish a goal.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=strategy

Tactic - smaller, shorter term methods of implementing the overall strategy

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=tactic

Techniques - specific movements within the tactics

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=technique

Skill - how good you are at the above three.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=skill

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If you did this against me,…You would already be dead!

LOL!

Wonderful man.

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hi shirker1.
now don’t throw a wobbly here .
BUT 7* MANTIS THAT I HAVE DONE FOR A FEW YEARS COMPARED TO SOME ON THIS FORUM WHO HAVE DONE ALOT LONGER.
MAY AGREE WITH ME HERE.
IT IS A DEFENCIVE STYLE.
look if you see most of our attacking moves come from defencive moves.
SO I SAY TO YOU HERE I MYSELF THINK YOU ARE WRONG IN SAYING VERY AGRESSIVE.

regards holymantis :slight_smile:

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:slight_smile:

:smiley: Holymantis

Defence is offense in mantis. Hence aggressive, and mantis to me is very aggressive in every aspect. Dictating action in the fight. When I say I am aggressive I mean I don’t give up. You can be beaten physically but mentally be willing to go on and that can be enough to get you over the hump. I will keep going until I can’t go any more. So your one punch wonder may not be what it takes to finish me. So you better be willing to go the extra mile. That is the mindset you should have facing any one. So when I said I’m very aggressive I was right not wrong. I’m aggressive in how I use my mantis, mantis is an aggressive fighting art. So I know that you don’t know me and have never seen me fight so you are speaking to what you “think” you know. I’m glad you have your opinion and that is great. I hear ya but I don’t agree.

In closing I’m not upset at all. I’m sitting here laughing at how blind some people are. I pm’d mantid 1 the same thing: “I train because it’s what I like to do and out of the need to be a good fighter growing up. You can have your talk and theories. My question still stands, when was the last time you were in a fight against someone other than your classmates? Don’t answer here answer yourself in your mind… It is an important point that what you think is going to work and what you know is going to work is a reality that you will come to know quickly if you’re not careful. The only person you need to ask that question and answer is yourself. That is the point that I’m trying to make.”

When you throw out little digs like don’t get all wobbly, expect to get a response from me. That is my forte, I like the banter. To me discussing issues is fun, showing up face to face and playing around is fun, not hiding behind a made up name on a computer. But hey I’m young, only 30 years old, been training in mantis for over 14 years, like to call people by their first name, give respect where respect is given, so yeah maybe I don’t understand how you go about your way of living. :rolleyes: frankly I don’t see any use in it. Did I prove any more points for you other than I’m an ass? :smiley: I’m not talking about knowing who did what when and where in mantis… that is politics… Who is right? Doesn’t matter, I really don’t care about the details of mantis history. That’s not going to help you when someone is trying to eat your face off in the street. What are you going to be able to apply in a fight and why. That is what matters in the end, not politics, not age, not forum names, not witty banter. Do you know deep down that what you are training is going to work the majority of the time when it matters most?

10

!

Why does this always have to turn into a whose right or wrong deal? Or posts where people are attacking the writers instead of the ideas. I know what works for me and that is all that matters. It may not work for you, it may if you’re open to it. Same goes for me, I’d like to see a different view.

Just post what you feel should be the mindset of a mantis fighter during an altercation and that’s it. It’s simple. Don’t throw out digs at each other, no smart ass comments directed at an individual then the information can be said and that’s it. My original post didn’t mention names it mentioned situations. How one should look at those situations and how I deal with them. Now agree or don’t that is up to you. Add your own Ideas as to why one should or shouldn’t think this way. It’s that easy guys.

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hi shirker1
WELL PUT .
LONG AND WINDED. :smiley:
YES I KNOW AND CAN DO MANTIS.
DONE THE FIGHT’S
BEEN WHERE YOU ARE .
GOT THROUGH THAT I’M IT YOUR **** THINKING .
AND NOW LOVING MY 7* MANTIS FOR THE ART.
WE LIVE IN A WORLD WERE WE CANNOT GO AROUND KICKING THE DAYLIGHT’S OUT OF ANYONE AND EVERY ONE.
like i said BEEN WHERE YOU ARE .
and now well beyond your level of thinking about mantis . :smiley: :smiley:
so live long and prosper young shirkers1

12

I agree on this 100%. Let’s don’t get “YOU” or “I” involve. We share different idea here. It’s not right or wrong. We just look at thing from different angles or even the same angle but with different words and we argue on the words difference. Whether you had killed 5 guys on the street yesterday and I had killed 7 kids in the day care center today (so I’m more macho than you) is not important. Whether your PM is good and my PM suck is also not important either.

What’s the PM specialty? Fast combo that you don’t see in any other style. For example the close door kick, you back fist on his face and then give a nuts kick. Why it’s design this way? because according to possibility, your opponent raise his arm to block your punch is very high. this will let his groin to open for your attack. Why you use a back fist instead of a straight punch? Because straight punch is hard to block and he might not be able to block it. You may be able to hit on his head but you may not be able to kick at his nuts. Is this a plan? or just common sense? PM hands always combo of 3, 5, or even 7 moves and that make PM system special.

Brandon Lai’s favor move was a 7 strikes sequence that covers clockwise circle, counter clockwise circle, and verticle circle. Very fast and no matter what you do. His blocking hand will take over your blocking hand and that allow his striking continue (switch hands concept).

In LHPM the “catch grasshopper” drill, a small circle followed by a big circle, the big circle then changed into a small circle and the small circle changed into a big circle. A striking hand changed into a blocking hand and the previous blocking hand changes into a striking. Is this a plan? It’s body response not a plan.

This plan if you want to call it is not in your mind but in your body. What’s the difference? When someone run in toward you and try to knock your head off, your leg kick out and break his ribs. After your opponent drop on the ground then you suddenly realize that “your leg kick out by itself and you just notice after it’s over.”

In school when you take the exam, you may have 10 questions and you start from the 1st question and work the way down. If you have problem with question 3 then you may skip it and work on question 4 and later on come back to question 3. When someone stab you with his knife, you have to response right way otherwiase you would be dead. That’s the difference between a scholar and a fighter.

CMA guys train “response - be able to feel the leak and enter through the leak”. That’s not “plan” in your mind but response on your body.

13

So…

Okay, time to group hug? :smiley: :smiley: :smiley:

Mantis108

14

:slight_smile:

YKW

“We may talk about the same thing but say it differently” I agree :smiley:

'holymantis"

exactly what I was just saying. Respond to the topic of the thread and not attack the person writing. :rolleyes:

15

Relaxation and speed are the two most important things. If you can relax in a fight and speed up you will win.Mantis works best with relaxation and speed.It is very yin/yang in this regard.In lots of sparring practice in a small space you can learn to relax.

16

.

Good point phoenixdog… This point works on all levels whether in the street or in the ring.

17

I’m still working on the mantis mind, I think.

7 years of hung gar and 13 years of other stuff compared to not yet 2 years of mantis makes me not a mantis fighter yet.

but, as I talk about in the ‘sparring note’ thread, I finally got into some feeling of the right thing friday.

[B]SO:

constant movement, mostly forward, hands never stop moving

side to side waist jing with most circles

vertical spinal jing with the verticle circles like LKW{edit: good lord, I meant YKW :o } talked about.[/B]

Brandon Lai’s favor move was a 7 strikes sequence that covers clockwise circle, counter clockwise circle, and verticle circle. Very fast and no matter what you do. His blocking hand will take over your blocking hand and that allow his striking continue (switch hands concept).

that’s exactly what I was doing with one set of combinations (I’m NOT, of course, saying I do it like BL :smiley: )

the karate guys had a hard time dealing with that. I think they could but their sport venue training doesn’t emphasize continual attacking. they do combinations of 2-4 but always exit after the last technique due to the scoring method.

18

cool sounds like kick boxing to me.

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kick boxing

Vasquez
Being that I wasn’t talking about what tactics are used and just the mindset in a general sense, ANY fighter should be thinking that way… in my opinion. So I don’t think it sounds like any style per se, this is the thinking you should apply to your style. It’s what surrounds your applying of tactics in a fight. We’ve gotten a few here of how specifically a mantis guy applies his thinking in a tactical fighting sense. Lets get some more. :slight_smile:

20

To be a warrior in combat is to be of the mindset to destroy the enemy by cutting him down with the up most resolve and conviction. Do not hesitate or waver in your quest to defeat the enemy at all cost. Do not stop until you have defeated them completely.
This is the concept behind “The Book of the Five Rings” to defeat the enemy without thought or fear. You have one goal and the enemy has the same you most be stronger and if you feel you may be out matched in strength or technique then you must have a larger sprite. There is no right or wrong only standing and laying on the ground.

RibHit
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