[QUOTE=MightyB;1143223]I guess where I was going is that maybe John and Gino aren’t as off-base as people are trying to say when they say that they don’t have to worry as much about the newaza. Because, with their vast SC experience, they would be very hard to take down. So much so that I don’t think your average BJJer or MMAer would have much of a shot of getting them down if they didn’t want to get taken down.[/QUOTE]
average bjjer, maybe not although off the top of my head most i know also train BJJ, average MMAer, with a background in wrestling as you are normally bound to get in the states…might be best to be prepared
[QUOTE=Frost;1143254]average bjjer, maybe not although off the top of my head most i know also train BJJ, average MMAer, with a background in wrestling as you are normally bound to get in the states…might be best to be prepared[/QUOTE]
But the ones who are any good rarely if ever get into bar/street fights, and I’ve never seen a real good competitive martial artist actually start a fight outside of the ring. So who’s that leave?
I think it is fair to say that with the emergence of MMA as well as the rise of popularity in grappling arts there is a chance of going up against someone with training. That being said, it is also a silly notion to believe that every street fight scenirio (how many fights do you guys get into anyway:p) is going to be against a highly trained martial artist. One should always expect the unexpected, but the reality of it is it will probably be your average douchebag.
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1143265]I think it is fair to say that with the emergence of MMA as well as the rise of popularity in grappling arts there is a chance of going up against someone with training. That being said, it is also a silly notion to believe that every street fight scenirio (how many fights do you guys get into anyway:p) is going to be against a highly trained martial artist. One should always expect the unexpected, but the reality of it is it will probably be your average douchebag.[/QUOTE]
We get at least one a month - you know, that guy who wants to fight MMA that comes into your school that can recite every move ever used in every UFC. He’s somewhat in shape and tells you how he grapples with his cousin or whatever and he’s anxious to step onto the mat to show you how good he is.
[QUOTE=MightyB;1143270]We get at least one a month - you know, that guy who wants to fight MMA that comes into your school that can recite every move ever used in every UFC. He’s somewhat in shape and tells you how he grapples with his cousin or whatever and he’s anxious to step onto the mat to show you how good he is.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=MightyB;1143259]But the ones who are any good rarely if ever get into bar/street fights, and I’ve never seen a real good competitive martial artist actually start a fight outside of the ring. So who’s that leave?[/QUOTE]
well since the question i was responding to was you dont have to grapple a BJJ guy, i dont know where the bar/street fight arguement comes from…
[QUOTE=Frost;1143302]well since the question i was responding to was you dont have to grapple a BJJ guy, i dont know where the bar/street fight arguement comes from…[/QUOTE]
Just trying to get a different perspective on TCMA Groundfighting. One that I think was being alluded to earlier which was that if they could stuff the takedown, then the groundfighting wouldn’t be as relevant and therefore you could get by on a basic training groundfighting regimen. Gotta play devil’s advocate once in a while.
all three zones should be practiced equally. None of this “if you can stuff it” crap. You never know when you’ll need to fight from your back or on your face in the dirt. People get blindsided all the time. Is your upstairs fighting going to save you from that? Unless you have eyes in the back of your head, (and none of the mystical crap), then you should learn the ground as you should learn the clinch and stand up.
ground is not this MMA rolling on the ground for the sport of it compendium. It’s a zone that is taken like all other zones that you train. It teaches you to move, position, advantages, leverage, and how the ground scenario works. If you are lacking in that area and your “scared” of the wrestler take down then go out and learn it. That’s the only way to be prepared for it.
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1143265]I think it is fair to say that with the emergence of MMA as well as the rise of popularity in grappling arts there is a chance of going up against someone with training. That being said, it is also a silly notion to believe that every street fight scenirio (how many fights do you guys get into anyway:p) is going to be against a highly trained martial artist. One should always expect the unexpected, but the reality of it is it will probably be your average douchebag.[/QUOTE]
i just wanted to butt in and say that in America, the curriculum in high school involves wrestling, and that it’s normally very good ^^
[QUOTE=Chadderz;1143329]i just wanted to butt in and say that in America, the curriculum in high school involves wrestling, and that it’s normally very good ^[1]
Wrestling??? Wrestling doesn’t count, it’s not a martial art!!!:mad:
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;1143318]ground is not this MMA rolling on the ground for the sport of it compendium. It’s a zone that is taken like all other zones that you train. It teaches you to move, position, advantages, leverage, and how the ground scenario works. If you are lacking in that area and your “scared” of the wrestler take down then go out and learn it. That’s the only way to be prepared for it.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this statement. Everyone should train some type of ground work. I do not possess the same skills as a BJJ fighter, but I have enough to feel confident if taken down that I could handle myself.
How much ground work is enough? Do you need a Black Belt in BJJ or a couple of years workouts at a MMA gym? Is the Northern Shaolin ground fighting stuff I have enough? My training would probably be 40% stand up / 40% SC grappling / 20% ground work, is this enough?
[QUOTE=MightyB;1143270]We get at least one a month - you know, that guy who wants to fight MMA that comes into your school that can recite every move ever used in every UFC. He’s somewhat in shape and tells you how he grapples with his cousin or whatever and he’s anxious to step onto the mat to show you how good he is.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Iron_Eagle_76;1143351]Wrestling??? Wrestling doesn’t count, it’s not a martial art!!!:mad:
[/QUOTE]
Nope, it is a marital art. To prove a point one of the first times the term “martial art” was used was a 16th century textbook on (european) fencing.
[QUOTE=ginosifu;1143355]I agree with this statement. Everyone should train some type of ground work. I do not possess the same skills as a BJJ fighter, but I have enough to feel confident if taken down that I could handle myself.
How much ground work is enough? Do you need a Black Belt in BJJ or a couple of years workouts at a MMA gym? Is the Northern Shaolin ground fighting stuff I have enough? My training would probably be 40% stand up / 40% SC grappling / 20% ground work, is this enough?
ginosifu[/QUOTE]
Good question, my suggestion would be to go up against a grappler and find out! I reckon if you can get to standing, then you’re doing alright. (:
There is a Judoka in my BJJ class who is amazing on the ground, due to his Judo Newaza. So it’s all relevent IMO.
[QUOTE=Chadderz;1143436]Nope, it is a marital art. To prove a point one of the first times the term “martial art” was used was a 16th century textbook on (european) fencing.
[QUOTE=ginosifu;1143355]I agree with this statement. Everyone should train some type of ground work. I do not possess the same skills as a BJJ fighter, but I have enough to feel confident if taken down that I could handle myself.
How much ground work is enough? Do you need a Black Belt in BJJ or a couple of years workouts at a MMA gym? Is the Northern Shaolin ground fighting stuff I have enough? My training would probably be 40% stand up / 40% SC grappling / 20% ground work, is this enough?
ginosifu[/QUOTE]
Depends on what you are looking for
To compete in MMA wrestling and ground work should be the majority of your training, especially at lower levels about 70%, at higher levels it should be 50-60% (the bigger cage, allowing headshots on the ground and elbows etc changes the game a bit)
If you are looking to defend yourself on the street a year or so at a good grappling school would be enough with some rolling time in your normal class afterwards
If you are a good stand up grappler and train that a lot, then the time you spend on the ground should be less because you are less likely to end up there
In all honestly a blue belt in BJJ, which takes a year to two of hard training, would be enough to destroy most people on the ground
[QUOTE=bawang;1143578]i tell people i train kickboxing. no one ever bothered me about groundfighting.[/QUOTE]
Here’s the thing, Kung Fu tends to be in the realm of esoterica often enough that people will say “you don’t know the real -x-”. This in turn creates an artificial air of superiority and nobody likes to be told they are stupid by a construct that is 100% artificial.
That is the reason that Kung Fu gets ridiculed so much and that is the only reason.
People who have never demonstrated anything significant at all get smug about what and who they train with as opposed to trying to really understand the art form for what it is.
As time passes, I think more people are looking at their Kung Fu practice realistically and as far as the martial art aspect goes, are removing as much of the cryptic stuff as possible to make it clear what is what. This is leading to other discoveries about these arts too. Some positive, some negative.
Change is the constant here though, so it’s good.
I tell people I’m working on my destiny as a power ranger, they also don’t bug me about wrestling. lol
