[QUOTE=Northwind;1057707]Okay now that is just plain confusing how you’r taking statements out of context and re-working them with an ending statement that’s in a different context. I’m confused.
Since people in TCMAs have been able to defend themselves from attackers, then that seems pretty dam effective to me.[/QUOTE]
This is true, but so have 90 lb housewives with zero training.
Personally, I’d rather go for the training that has more provable evidence of effectiveness, but to each his own.
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1057699]This is true. But, IMHO if MMA were to give FORMS a chance it would open their eyes to another level not higher…just a different level of things. But with everything in life comes balance…right now…there is real balance in martial arts. not yet.[/QUOTE]
What would the benefit of forms training be?
What would the benefit of forms training be?
Since it’s a personal endeavor i cannot speak on what it would do for you specifically. that’s YOUR path as a martial artist. For myself, i consider my forms a form of CHINESE STYLE SHADOW BOXING because OUR forms are geared for realistic applications. Our techniques are not fancy or pretty. IMHO their pretty ugly. BUT they work.
Forms are in one way a poor man’s work out. if you don’t have a punching bag or space you can get your work out still by doing a form. Forms are not so easy to do if you follow the rules of how they should be performed. it’s a good work out if you do them slowly in a low horse. you’d be amazed at how much you’d sweat just by doing a form or two.
Does a form have anything to do with FIGHTING…no. but if you focus your intent during your forms towards combat you’d see you can get something out of it.
FOR ALL the FORMS HATERS…all i can say is "try learning ONE form. just ONE form from beginning to end and perfect it. if you can honestly say afterwards you don’t see the purpose in them…then at least you’d have a first hand point of view and you can honestly tell people why you didn’t appreciate the form.
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1057729]Since it’s a personal endeavor i cannot speak on what it would do for you specifically. that’s YOUR path as a martial artist. For myself, i consider my forms a form of CHINESE STYLE SHADOW BOXING because OUR forms are geared for realistic applications. Our techniques are not fancy or pretty. IMHO their pretty ugly. BUT they work.
Forms are in one way a poor man’s work out. if you don’t have a punching bag or space you can get your work out still by doing a form. Forms are not so easy to do if you follow the rules of how they should be performed. it’s a good work out if you do them slowly in a low horse. you’d be amazed at how much you’d sweat just by doing a form or two.
Does a form have anything to do with FIGHTING…no. but if you focus your intent during your forms towards combat you’d see you can get something out of it.
FOR ALL the FORMS HATERS…all i can say is "try learning ONE form. just ONE form from beginning to end and perfect it. if you can honestly say afterwards you don’t see the purpose in them…then at least you’d have a first hand point of view and you can honestly tell people why you didn’t appreciate the form.[/QUOTE]
How would that benefit a MMA fighter who is already doing shadow boxing?
How would that benefit a MMA fighter who is already doing shadow boxing?
In the ring NOTHING. But how do you know if you don’t try? I know how to fight and i still like forms. 
IF a MMA guy does not know gung fu then forms are just foreign to him. To blindly shoot down forms without learning any is just pure ego.
You don’t really think doing a form is easy do you?
Maybe the subtlety of my question wasn’t quite as well articulated as I had thought.
As far as fighting is concerned, sport or real, if you train sport fighting all the time, what are you unable to develop alternatively?
Its not as inflamitory as it sounds. i.e.
if you use gloves, you can’t grab. (how do you accomodate that?)
If you use shin guards, you don’t respect your shins. (how do you learn to rotate your shin to use the muscle on the outside to take the impact)
I think sport makes you tend to be a headhunter. (is that a bad thing?)
Its hard to do slipping hands (chi sau) with gloves (that’s my biggie, hand speed)
Bare handed, you tend to respect the single hits more… (trust me…I’m a doctor)
I’m simply pushing an agenda that once you have done your good times banging around and getting the skills, you can work on other stuff, and bring it into play when you do play, like icing on the cake. That’s how you bring more ‘style’ to your combat.
All the talk about ‘the deadly’…
Knife asked the question, “tell me the training, and I’ll tell you how to practice it”
Anybody else want to have a crack?
There’s the MMA biggie, elbows to the face. How do you practice that in sport, other than at top level hardcore?
Knee stomps? (Any big joint attacks, the comitted ones, not subs) Seen some good training all padded up, but not too much live…
Eyes, what is the pre-occupation? They’re on the face. either side of the nose, above the cheeks. pay your money, take your chances… Training that isn’t an issue to me.
We agree, approximation training is fast-track, but then you have to break it down and do component training which is less efficient, but efficient to some degree.
So, how sport fighters train their ‘the deadly’, and what can we take from that?
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1057893] ‘the deadly’, [/QUOTE]
This is what MMA guys donot believe. For all those years, I still believe a groin kick followed by a fingers across the eys is the most effective initial attack. Sometime I don’t feel like to argue with MMA guys on this issue. If we believe in something but others don’t, it’s not our responsibility to make others to believe. There is no need to educate someone if they don’t even appreciate it.
One time I brought my teacher’s special formula herbs wine to a party. After I found out that people still prefer their beer than my expensive herbs wine (cost me more than $200 to make), I don’t feel like to share any more after that.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1057903]This is what MMA guys donot believe. For all those years, I still believe a groin kick followed by a fingers across the eys is the most effective initial attack. Sometime I don’t feel like to argue with MMA guys on this issue. If we believe in something but others don’t, it’s not our responsibility to make others to believe. There is no need to educate someone if they don’t even appreciate it.
One time I brought my teacher’s special formula herbs wine to a party. After I found out that people still prefer their beer than my expensive herbs wine (cost me more than $200 to make), I don’t feel like to share any more after that.[/QUOTE]
yeah,once they find out that there’s lizards, sea horses, and deer antler in it, they probably would go for the Budweisers.
Nevermind the san pien chiew…
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1057893]Maybe the subtlety of my question wasn’t quite as well articulated as I had thought.
As far as fighting is concerned, sport or real, if you train sport fighting all the time, what are you unable to develop alternatively?
Its not as inflamitory as it sounds. i.e.
yes you can, it depends on what gloves you use and when, but if you couldnt grab with gloves on us grapplers would be sh*t out of luck 
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1057893]
Umm not being silly but what here is the question? you do know that thai fighters use shin guards all the time in sparring, and they manage to condition the shin just fine for 5 rounds of mayhem, you condition them on the pads and bags and and in ocasional sparring, but to be honest adrenaline carrys you through a lot of contact on the legs and shin
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1057893]
No sports tells you to take the guy out as quickly as possible under the rules, and usually the 2 bests ways of taking someone out is massive head trauma or cutting off the air and blood supply to the brain, what training without gloves does is stops you hitting the head hard through fear of trading shots, unfortunantly on the street people are head hunters so its bes to be prepared for that
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1057893]
Again depends on the gloves and how you define chi sau, hand fighting and controlling the wrist, bicep and arm in the clinch are all done in MMA, if you mean trapping etc well i have yet to see thatreally work gloved or not gloved
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1057893]
yes and this makes you fearful of staying in range and trading, something you have to get used to, too mny of the sparring clips out there that are bare handed lack power lack hea shots and lack combinations, all of which you need on the street and in the ring
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1057893]
I’m simply pushing an agenda that once you have done your good times banging around and getting the skills, you can work on other stuff, and bring it into play when you do play, like icing on the cake. That’s how you bring more ‘style’ to your combat. ?[/QUOTE]
prolem is this stuff is timing dependent and timing is the first thing to go…
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1057893]
All the talk about ‘the deadly’…
Knife asked the question, “tell me the training, and I’ll tell you how to practice it”
Anybody else want to have a crack?
umm they have these things called elbow pads, they work great
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1057893]
and how do you train them…this is the problem you cant not unless you are destroying training partners so its really a mute question
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;1057893]
Eyes, what is the pre-occupation? They’re on the face. either side of the nose, above the cheeks. pay your money, take your chances… Training that isn’t an issue to me.
We agree, approximation training is fast-track, but then you have to break it down and do component training which is less efficient, but efficient to some degree.
So, how sport fighters train their ‘the deadly’, and what can we take from that?[/QUOTE]
want to attack the eyes put on eye protectors and go for it, if you can hit the head on a moving target you can probable hit the eys and throat, if you cant hit a moving target over and over then what are your chances of actually hitting these spots in a fight?
[QUOTE=Frost;1058035] if you can hit the head on a moving target you can probable hit the eys and throat, if you cant hit a moving target over and over then what are your chances of actually hitting these spots in a fight?[/QUOTE]
To use 2 fingers to poke on your opponent’s eyes will need a lot of accuracy and courage. I don’t know you will have the stomach to have 2 eye balls on your finger tips. However, when you move your hand across your opponent’s eyes, you will have 10 chances (5 fingers x 2 eyes) that one of your fingers will hit on one of your opponent’s eye. A finger across the eye ball may not cause too much damage but it will take your opponent’s vision away temporary. That little advantage will be all you need to do what you need to do in street fight.
This is what MMA guys donot believe. For all those years, I still believe a groin kick followed by a fingers across the eys is the most effective initial attack.
Especially if you let your nails grow a little…then they become little knives.
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1058051]Especially if you let your nails grow a little…then they become little knives.[/QUOTE]
And also put some red pepper powder on your finger nails.
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1058051]Especially if you let your nails grow a little…then they become little knives.[/QUOTE]
yeah, but it’s not neccesary. Ever just lightly accidentally poke yourself in the eye? Now imagine it done forcefully. I’ve been hit directly in the eye. The pain is excruciating.
I had a female student, who was a massage therapist-very short nails. She was practicing a takedown involving a neck grab. Her partner was sweating and her finger slipped across the back of his neck. She pulled out a ribbon of flesh from her fingernail.
When we do an eye strike, it is with all four fingers, (nevermind that “twin dragons fighting for the pearls” sh1t, two eyes, four fingers-probability of success? Do the math.) slightly separated and slightly curved so as not to hyperextend.
I can’t pierce a watermelon like LPS, but I can still strike pretty dang hard.
The thing is, you don’t really need to. Eyestrikes are debilitating. Anyone who says they aren’t, has never been on the recieving end of one.
But sure, I guess the nails are a bonus. I feel sorry for your GF…
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1058062]And also put some red pepper powder on your finger nails.[/QUOTE]
my luck, I’d forget about it, and rub my eye while I’m driving…
One day I’ll tell you my Endorphin Rush hot sauce story…
nope, it wasn’t my eyes..
I prefer to lose an arm than to lose an eye.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1058048] you will have 10 chances (5 fingers x 2 eyes) that one of your fingers will hit on one of your opponent’s eye..[/QUOTE]
oops, didn’t see that.
We are of one mind!
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1058065]my luck, I’d forget about it, and rub my eye while I’m driving…
One day I’ll tell you my Endorphin Rush hot sauce story…
nope, it wasn’t my eyes..[/QUOTE]
The most powerful hot sauce on this planet is called “insanity”. Onetime I had to lay down on the side of the street because I had too much.
i did some county jail time and i was locked up with this filipino dude who had one long thumb nail…hard hard as a real nail. I saw him uppercut this one guy knocking him out but his thumb nail went right through the bottom of his chin and left this big gnarly gash …a serious one man.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1058070]The most powerful hot sauce on this planet is called “insanity”. Onetime I had to lay down on the side of the street because I had too much.[/QUOTE]
Dave’s Insanity Sauce! I have that at home. I use a drop in my guacamole’ and nobody wants it. It’s too hot.
More for me.
There is something hotter, though. It’s called “Pure Cap,” and it’s pure oleo capsiacin-500,000 scoviles. It comes in an eyedropper and has a waiver you sign. (probably just hype, but cool nonetheless) It’s only good for smearing on yuor enemy’s car door handle…
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1058048]To use 2 fingers to poke on your opponent’s eyes will need a lot of accuracy and courage. I don’t know you will have the stomach to have 2 eye balls on your finger tips. However, when you move your hand across your opponent’s eyes, you will have 10 chances (5 fingers x 2 eyes) that one of your fingers will hit on one of your opponent’s eye. A finger across the eye ball may not cause too much damage but it will take your opponent’s vision away temporary. That little advantage will be all you need to do what you need to do in street fight.[/QUOTE]
i never mentioned poking the eyes i said eye strikes which can include anything from flicking past the eyes to poking them, to grabbing the head thrusting the thumb into the eye sockets and ramming your opponents head back into a wall (see us MMA guys do play around with the deadly stuff in the clinch from time to time)
I have a question how do you practise these moves so you know you can pull them off, i mean we have in built automatic defences when something comes towards the eye so what training do you do to make sure you can hit your opponents eyes in this way?